VIRGINIANS OF INTEREST
Carthan and Brian have been friends for more than 30 years and share a passion for all things Virginia! They lost touch for many years, but reconnected in 2020 while Carthan was involved with the Economic Development Office for the City of Petersburg and Brian was working on the Medicines for All Project at Virginia Commonwealth University. Both talked frequently about various issues facing the Commonwealth and started kicking around the idea of a podcast. Both Carthan and Brian consider themselves a bit technically challenged, so when the opportunity to host a podcast at Blue Ridge PBS in Roanoke presented itself, they jumped in with both feet!
We hope you enjoy the conversations!
VIRGINIANS OF INTEREST
E47: How J. Emerson’s Built A Neighborhood Wine Culture In Richmond
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A great wine shop can change how a city drinks, not by being flashy, but by being thoughtful, consistent, and genuinely helpful. We’re in Roanoke at Blue Ridge PBS Studios, talking with James, Jim, and Helen from J. Emerson’s Wine Shop on Grove Avenue in Richmond, the oldest continuously operated wine store in the city. They share the shop’s story from its founding on Bastille Day in 1985 to the way it’s adapted through decades of shifting wine trends in the United States.
We get practical about what makes specialty wine retail work: careful storage, an eclectic selection, and service that doesn’t make people feel stupid for asking basic questions. Helen’s background in restaurants and WSET wine education helps explain how the shop turns tastings into confidence, and why trips, from Virginia winery visits to Italy-focused travel, can be one of the best ways to learn wine fast.
Then we zoom out to the Virginia wine industry itself. Why has Virginia started to earn serious attention in the wider wine world? What grapes are thriving, and what happens when winemakers stop trying to copy other regions and instead make wines that fit Virginia’s climate? We also talk about the biggest viticulture hurdles here, especially humidity and fungi pressure, why “organic” is so hard in the Commonwealth, and how different state alcohol laws shape what customers expect when they move to Richmond.
Subscribe for more conversations with Virginians shaping culture and community, share this with a friend who loves wine, and leave us a review with your favorite Virginia bottle.
Welcome And Guest Introductions
SPEAKER_00And now, from the Blue Ridge PBS Studios in Roanoke, Virginia, it's the Virginians of Interest Podcast with your hosts, Brian Campbell and Carthen Curran.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Virginians of Interest Podcast. My name is Brian Campbell. I'm here with my friend Carthen Curren. We've got some special guests that Carthon's going to introduce.
SPEAKER_06Thank you, Brian. I'm delighted to have James, Jim, and Ellen with us with J. Emerson wine shop on Grove Avenue in Richmond, Virginia. That's a place that I I will admit freely that I frequent uh frequen pretty frequent frequently. Anyway, it's a great thing. So you're not that frequent. Well, that's right.
SPEAKER_01Well, it needs to be more frequent, right?
SPEAKER_06It's a it's a wonderful place. Wonderful place. And I I'm just so happy to have all three of these dear friends on Virginians of Interest Podcast. We're going to talk about the history of the store, your history, how did you get involved in this, and talk about the wine industry, and probably touch on James and I talked about this last week. We would touch on, of course, the Virginia wine uh industry here in the Commonwealth and how that's evolved in a very nice way over the past 30 plus years. Uh who would like to start? James, we'll start with you. Uh how did you get this? How did you well you got involved because your
The Store’s Family Timeline
SPEAKER_06dad owns a store and now you're part of her kind of give us the history of how your family got involved in getting this store? And it's is correct, may you're 41 years old this year, correct?
SPEAKER_04Yes, it's our 41st uh anniversary this past Bastille Day. So we uh the store opened on Bastille Day 1985. Uh sorry. Um and so um we just had our uh um 41st anniversary, and um yeah, I got into it um about 10 years, so uh it was 10 years this March that I've been uh here and my dad got into it uh in 2006. I remember I came home from uh high school one day, and he said, I'm thinking of buying a wine store, you want to go check it out with me? And I was a kid, you know how kids are, teenagers are pretty self-absorbed. I was like, Yeah, sure, whatever. And um and so we go over, we check it out, and I was like, Oh, it's just gorgeous. So he did go through with it. And looking back as an adult, it must have been a very challenging time in his life and a challenging decision, taking a big risk, uh, you know, taking over a small business. Um, as a kid, I didn't like appreciate any of that. Um, but um looking back, it must have been a very uh big transition for him. Yes.
SPEAKER_06Well, Jim, you want to well, let's touch on uh how you how did you get how did you find out about this opportunity to begin with?
SPEAKER_05As you may, as you may know, Carson, uh, we are the oldest, I think you just mentioned
Why J. Emerson’s Started
SPEAKER_05it, right? The oldest wine store, continuously operated wine store in um Richmond. It was founded by a gentleman named uh Jim Tashian Brown, and um uh his middle name was Emerson, so he named it uh Jay Emerson's. Uh 1985, it was founded right in the Libyan Grove Avenue, but it was in a kind of a back uh basement kind of store next to Libby Market. There's an office building next to Libby Market. And from what I understand from Jim, you know, the founder was he had a profound interest in wine and and the area was lacking, in his opinion. The area was lacking this kind of burgundy and Bordeaux and even California, which was becoming a thing in 1985, uh, a really eclectic selection. And so he thought he could bring that to the table. Um, and he also was concerned about how the wine was being stored in the wine stores that he visited. They were usually not usually concerned about temperature in the Richmond wine stores, they weren't concerned about trying to keep the bottles on their sides, where uh the the corks can, you know, the wine from inside can keep the cork uh moisture in the cork. So he all the shelving that he built initially was to store the bottles on their side. So that was the start for Jim of the store. And then um in the in the uh early 90s mid uh late 80s, he moved to uh a storefront on Libby where there is now a um a uh uh fabric store. And then in the mid-90s, he moved to this location on um on Grove Avenue, and we've been there um ever since. 30 years, there was 96, 30 years in this store, and uh many of the things in the store have are that old, too.
SPEAKER_04Yes, many of the things are that old. Like security system that was just basic. Wow, this wiring is he's like I haven't seen one of these in decades.
SPEAKER_05But I mean the store has been watched every major trend in the wine industry as it's happened over the last 40 years, and quite a bit has happened if one was to go back to where uh wine was in America and the United States in 1985 versus where it is in 20, let's say 2025, just to make it um there's been several profound cycles, and uh the store's been able to to go through all of those cycles, so yeah, usually at the Helen, you want
Helen’s Move From Brooklyn
SPEAKER_05to would you like to talk about your background?
SPEAKER_03How did you get hooked up with these two jets and and uh uh so essentially I was living in I'm originally from Virginia, but I I had been living in Brooklyn for 20 years. And um, whenever I would come back to Richmond to visit my in-laws, uh, we would make sure to come by the store to see what was available because um compared to the the wine stores in my neighborhood, this one was was far elevated.
SPEAKER_04Um felt like Brooklyn when she it was vague and fashion forward.
SPEAKER_03That's sure. That's it's very fashion forward. Um no, and so when when my husband and I moved to Richmond in 2022, um I had basically one place that I thought I would want to work, and that was here. And I have done um I'm W3, um W set three, which is uh Wine and Spirits Education Trust, sort of an educational wine educational uh system that is started in England. And um there's a bunch of different levels that you can take. I think that the fourth might be the anyway. I'm three. Diplomat. Um diplomat is like the highest diploma. A diploma. And um, and that's basically like going to grad school and not walking out with a diploma. So I decided not to do that. Um dissertation and so I had worked in it with wine and in restaurants for my entire time in in New York. And when I came down here, I just thought I'd like to work in a little retail shop. And uh, and they were conveniently kind of looking for someone for just a few shifts a week. And so I stepped in and then and then I believe that Amanda, my friend Amanda said that I think I was hired basically like for holiday work.
SPEAKER_02And the next thing you know, you're going to Italy with with And then Amanda was like, if you don't leave hire her as she leaves, I'm quitting. And so, yeah,
Helping New Drinkers Choose Well
SPEAKER_02so here I stay.
SPEAKER_06Well, I I must say too, we'll we'll talk about the retail part of the business and the and and and but your amazing uh selections. But also I what I really also admire is the you you all are so great at the educational component of teaching pe ding dongs like me about wine and the different variations and qualities and origins, and you do tours in Virginia, you go you take tours on Virginia wineries, and now you've expanded that. You did a trip recently to uh Italy um with people that customers that wanted to learn more about Italian wines, and you're gonna try to expand that uh as I understand it. And they have also you have these tastings on a constant basis, uh, which are very popular, again, an educational component. Um I I'm kind of taking too much of the time here, Brian.
SPEAKER_01Well, I was actually gonna tie into that. So I'm I'm the odd man out here. I'm not a big wine guy, I don't drink a lot of wine. But in preparation for this podcast, I came into the store, I don't know, a couple weeks ago because I needed to get somebody a gift. And I have to admit, it was kind of a really pleasant experience. I didn't feel stupid. I felt like that um you guys were very accommodating. You were um, you know, and you helped me make a good decision. I thought, wow, I'm gonna go back to that place. Maybe I'll even start drinking some wine. So, so but help me understand who you're you've been in business a long time. Yeah, you've been in business a long time. Who's your customer base? I would imagine sometimes is it like a hairstylist that uh people may leave and go to northern Virginia, but they still come back to to buy their wine from you?
SPEAKER_05That's interesting. I mean, our original um, of course, we're a neighborhood store.
SPEAKER_06If you look at our website, what what was the what was the kind of uh moment that it seemed to really have matured, if that's the right word?
SPEAKER_04Uh um I think in the last uh it was chosen as the like wine region of the year in um a couple of years ago. Uh in Wine Spectator, or um there was another one where um or one way that I saw is last year uh the W set diploma, every year you have to write a dissertation, you have a topic. Um and um one of the you can choose, but one of the topics that for last year is because I had a friend that did it was Virginia wine. And the fact that that was one of the, it was like you only have like two options, so um, it's two or three. And so you the fact that that was one of the options that
Virginia Wine Earns Industry Respect
SPEAKER_04that these people who are studying wine kind of at the highest, one of the highest levels, that they Virginia was one thing that they could study solely was um was a testament that in the wider wine industry it was being taken seriously. Uh honestly, it's like, why did that have persistence, I'd say? Uh because also age, right? I mean age, yeah, that it's just been going. And there's people that have been just getting better and better at learning how to make uh wine in this climate, which is the main issue why the East Coast uh struggles with vinifera, with uh Venice vinifera, which is the European wine uh vine, um, which is just um has always struggled here. Uh when they first came over, the colonists thought uh that'd be a big business because they looked around, they're like, it doesn't seem that different from France. And they thought they could um that'd be a huge growth business, and it just kept uh the vines would uh be okay for a couple years and then they die, and um and they could never quite get it to work. They could do hybrids and uh native varietals, grapes that are uh new world varietals, right? Uh resistant to the uh fungi that plague uh vineyards and um but then they made wines that they described as foxy, and they meant that in a bad way. But that was the word they described with uh with uh wines in the 17th, 18th century. Interesting.
SPEAKER_05And I think it's to your point too about I think there's an old school kind of Virginia wine group that makes wonderful wines. Barbersville would be the one that Lyndon um and but there's also been an influx in the last 10 or 12 years of some some young, kind of vibrant winemakers are looking at different varietals, Tanat, for example, yeah, and um and trying to so the original kind of Virginia wineries were were trying to get acceptance by making Chardonnay and um you know Ankita Ridge makes uh Pinot Noir, delicious Pinot Noir. Um, but they were looking to do traditional varietals, and uh of course then they discovered Cabernet Franc grows pretty well, Tanat grows pretty well, and I think some of the younger winemakers, who's the guy from oh the uh customal uh uh yes, Ben Jordan, uh probably the biggest combo crush and Virginia wine right now, and they've kind of moved moved away from the kind of traditional look of Virginia wines to something that is hey guys, look, we don't need to copy somebody, let's do our own thing, so to speak. You know, let's do what the make the kind of wines that make sense in in Virginia. I think also those guys are trying to um uh be a little more sensitive to the environment in terms of being trying to be organic, which is extraordinarily difficult um in um in Virginia. But uh I think that's that's made a big rise too, brought some young people because of
New York, Long Island, And Scale
SPEAKER_05Ben Jordan and Commonwealth Crush and these these wineries. So yeah.
SPEAKER_06Well, if if on the East Coast, is Virginia are we the number one one state or uh with New York?
SPEAKER_03New York is pretty far up there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think New York's production is slightly bigger because I think we're the fifth largest state in production. Um because I yeah, I'm pretty sure it is California, Oregon, Washington.
SPEAKER_06Uh is the Empire State mainly known for their whites, the reds, or is that a misnomer? Historically they're whites, Riesling around so riesling up in the finger lakes.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh. And and then you've also got out on the um on Long Island. You've got some cat frog has been grown in both of those areas pretty widely as well, though.
SPEAKER_04Uh Long Island's like the more recent one that has exploded uh because um wherever billionaires uh live, wineries pop up. So Long Island wine could best be described as if you throw money at something long enough, eventually
Humidity, Fungi, And Organic Limits
SPEAKER_04it will work to an extent.
SPEAKER_01So there's something to be said. How do you get a small fortune in the wine business? You start with a large fortune?
SPEAKER_04That is uh great thing.
SPEAKER_01Well, let me uh back to Virginia wines, and it it it you mentioned fungi. Is that sort of one of the biggest is is a fungi the biggest threat to is it is or is there I also think of heat. We gets really darn hot sometimes in Virginia compared to the water.
SPEAKER_04But uh grapevines can take heat above 90. When it gets into like above 90, they kind of stop like they just shut down, but they usually can just wait it out is uh because where they're from and where they thrive are very hot environments, it's more um moisture that is the problem because the moisture leads to uh the humid nights, warm humid nights are toxic. And um because they like hot and dry, and but they they don't like hot and wet, and we're hot and wet. And so that is the biggest issue. The reason that there is almost no, I think there's like two maybe now. There's two in Virginia, but they don't use um uh they don't use vinifera, but it's almost impossible to get certified organic uh because uh you need synthetic fungicides to control some of the um the issues that pop up that if you don't spray regularly, like uh the grapes will just get consumed before they ripen enough for uh my last question on Virginia wines, which is is the as the wine business has exploded in Virginia, has the research apparatus at our universities kept up, like at Virginia Tech and other places where you would expect this? It's not the most yeah, the most robust is at least for like outside other than UC Davis, is Michigan does a ton of stuff with hybrids and trying to develop um wines that uh the big thing is
Research, Regions, And Realistic Expertise
SPEAKER_04try to develop a hybrid that tastes good or that breaks out in the public uh kind of acceptance. And that's still like kind of the holy grail that hasn't happened yet. Um and so they're the ones that do more of that, uh at least um on this side of the Mississippi.
SPEAKER_05Uh I think Virginia Tech has a has a good program. They do, and uh, but I'm not into moving. Is that part of extension?
SPEAKER_01Is it probably part of extension, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04The extension service or uh they have they do stuff because I've seen it where they have advice on growing and spraying. Um it's sort of they do it for like all sorts of agriculture.
SPEAKER_01So a lot of it's makes sense as as the wine business is. Oh, you know, the shoes may, I don't know.
SPEAKER_06But uh William and Mary, Jim, um James's albumado should uh you it Mr. Jefferson was educated there. I'm surprised they don't have a little uh maybe they do more, but maybe they do a study on wine tasting.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yeah. Uh it is harder down there.
SPEAKER_06Um, there is wineries there are wineries down there, but they're there's a Woysburg winery.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06They're kind of known for their whites, I as I recall. Their whites were pretty good, I think. Surely right. Are there other parts of the Commonwealth that are besides the P Piedmont area of the Charlottesville area, other places in Virginia that are like the Eastern Shore.
SPEAKER_04Is that an area that wines can I know they're they're making wines there, but um I don't uh with modern chemistry, you can do all sorts of things. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_05And I I think I think we should also clarify that. I mean, we are not we are wine, um, we understand the the you know wines from the making consumption. We are not wine growers. I mean, James tries to grow grapes, does better than me. I I I've killed many a vine. It's it's
Richmond Transplants And Alcohol Laws
SPEAKER_05an incredibly incredibly tough thing. And so by no stretch of the imagination are we experts on uh wine making. And of course, all it takes is a visit. You get a little pompous about tasting wine.
SPEAKER_04They're more interested in wine, they've lived up there, they they buy wine at wine stores, they buy European wine, uh, they find us, and um, that has been a steady stream pretty much every day. So it comes in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I would say like you know, I would say like at least several times a month, someone comes in and says, Oh, we just moved here, and you know, oh, where'd you move here from? And it's from the Northeast. And and yeah, it's they're like super excited to have found a wine store that fits their needs.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and they it's funny how some of them chose Richmond. Some of them did it like they looked at like other places, some of them are and just uh most of them have some sort of tie, just um, but there are people that just randomly like, oh, I read about it and I visited and I liked it, so I moved here. And uh I find that uh I guess like shopping for a place where to live, uh it's a good place. I don't blame them, it's just funny to me. Uh, usually it's like a spouse has a family tie here. Um, they want to raise kids, and well, I view this as a better place, which I would agree.
SPEAKER_06I was recently in a restaurant downtown that I met saw a new person uh who's working with CoStar. Yeah, yeah. So they're bringing all kinds, I think he came from uh uh somewhere in the Midwest, came here connected to that company, which is interesting.
SPEAKER_05Uh you you know the thing too is that every state has a different kind of situation relative to the laws around alcohol. So, for example, people moving from Pennsylvania, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened to them, Virginia. And well, not the I mean relative to purchase of alcohol, because everything in Pennsylvania is controlled by the state, wine, beer, and liquor. So that's the whole world of wine stores is completely new to that. Really?
SPEAKER_04For example, you can't find good wine, or it's very hard. It's getting they changed a little bit, but it's very hard to find good wine because the state stores and the ABC has this problem too. Uh, they tend to carry more mass-produced, run-of-the-mill, and and because they don't have the economic incentive to specialize, you don't have like a store somewhere that has all the really nice, kind of rare stuff that you know people that are uh into it might seek out. So the market just doesn't have that period. So people who want good Pennsylvania have to go to other states.
SPEAKER_06Well, speaking to that point, Jim, do you have a fair amount of business where
Why Shipping Wine Is Tricky
SPEAKER_06people just order one and you all mail it to them? Is that well?
SPEAKER_05So great question. We do not have, and we debate this, we do not have a uh on uh shipping license. Okay. Um, you do need to get a special shipping license.
SPEAKER_04Um, there is quite a bit of effort involved in the hacking and making sure paying you have to pay the taxes to the state cost kind of margins, and it's the people I know that do it, it's uh it's not a good uh business model. To make it work, you need a big facility.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it it works. There are a couple of places in Virginia that are uh that have really grown huge, a couple of stores that have become super huge by using an online component. Um, it's it's not quite right now. Recently, the wine business just indicated that online shipping is declining a little bit. Part of it is the cost, part of it is it's a kind of a pain because unlike Amazon that routinely drops packages on my uh front porch, alcohol, you must be home. You must be home because you have to sign for it. Some people send it to their place of work. Not all businesses accept personal deliveries at where you're working. So the online shipping um is is probably a potential.
SPEAKER_06What kind of people? Helen, James, Jim, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you very much. My thank you. Well uh this will probably be uh I'll let you
Thanks, Takeaways, And Subscribe
SPEAKER_06know when it's ready to wrap up first. Let me wrap up. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01Um uh thank you for listening to the Virginians of Interest podcast. If you've liked what you heard today, please like and subscribe to our podcast.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for listening to the Virginians of Interest podcast. To hear other episodes of this podcast, head to Virginiansofinterest.com.
