And now, from the Blue Ridge PBS Studios in Roanoke, Virginia, it's the Virginians of Interest Podcast with your hosts, Brian Campbell and Carthen Curran.

Thank you for listening to the Virginians of Interest Podcast. My name is Brian Campbell. I'm here today with my friend Carthen Curran, who's going to make a special introduction.

Thank you, Brian. We we're delighted to have with us this afternoon Sally Elaine, who is the Chief Health Science Growth and Innovative Innovation Officer of Virginia Tech. Sally, welcome. Before we get into what you do uh with regard to Virginia Tech, give us a little a background on where you grew up and uh where you went to school and things of that nature.

No, thank you for having me. It's exciting to be here. Uh so I actually grew up uh traveling a lot back and forth between a couple of countries as a child, but I uh landed with my family in in Northern Virginia for high school. Uh so I grew up in in Northern Virginia and Fairfax County, a public state high school. And after graduating, I did my undergraduate degree at Virginia Tech. Excitingly, I I enjoyed it so much, I decided to stay for another degree. So I actually did, as part of my undergraduate uh degree program, I was able to do some undergraduate research, actually the Fraylin Life Science Building on the main campus there. And then I transitioned to do a secondary undergraduate research project uh with uh Dr. Joe Falkenham, who was a professor of of microbiology at the time. And he had a also an entrepreneurial business at the corporate research center. And so after I graduated, um, I started doing some some work for him at that small startup and that small biotech. And then after about a year of work there, I transitioned back uh to a master's degree program um at Virginia Tech.

And where did you go after that? You because you you haven't been you we we were lucky because a lot of people leave Virginia and sometimes we get them back. We've got you back. Uh there's obviously some space in between those times. Do you want to tell us what happened in that space?

Yeah, a lot of space. Um, but it was uh an opportunity I had after graduation um to I say get off the East Coast and experience the West Coast. So I had some friends in San Diego. Um I was looking for my first sort of postgraduate degree job. And um at the time when you're looking at uh life science, uh, you know, you're looking in you at that time you were looking at certain marketplaces, whether it be Boston or San Francisco and San Diego. And and I applied for two companies in in San Diego and and were offered two entry-level positions there and um took the right one because the second company ended up folding. Uh, but so I worked for a small startup. Um, I was a 10th employee at a company called at Geo Biosciences, and that's really where I started my professional career. Um it was a true startup. We lived on um early SBIR funding, federal funding dollars, um, while also driving collaborations. Um, and fortunately, the company did really well. And it was uh subsequently acquired uh by Centicore, which was a company of the Johnson ⁇ Johnson family of companies.

And because I believe when you came to back to Virginia Tech, you came from the what we call the J Labs, which is essentially a Johnson ⁇ Johnson scientific operation. How would you best describe that?

Aaron Powell Yeah, you know, I that was many years later. So my career at at J and J was quite long. I was I spent cumulatively about 18 years at at J, and I took a number of different positions. I think that's the opportunity of working for a larger industry company is the ability to move around in different roles. Um so after uh I joined Senecor, um, and that's really where I also got off the bench. So it's where my career progressed from sort of doing benchtop research or or doing bioinformatics work um into what I would say is the business side of science. I fell in love with um project and program management, then portfolio management, uh, and then external collaboration. So my career at JJ was in the biologic space. Uh so I went at worked at Santa Cor for a couple of years, um, and then I actually moved left JJ and I moved overseas. And I was working in the United Kingdom for a couple of years. Um that was a family move for us. But I was fortunate because I was able to take on a program manager role there, um, working between the intersection of academic institutes, small biotech companies, and an economic development agency called ITI Life Sciences. Um, and that were driving opportunities for companies and academic institutions in Scotland, um, leveraging their federal dollars, I'd say. And so how you how you it was an opportunity to bring um unique IP out of the institutions and collaborate with small biotechs and then and really cede that money and shape those programs. Um I was working on a couple of programs there, um, one in stem cell and the other with um AMD and optometry issue. And so that was a great, again, overseas opportunity. Um, I then subsequently left the UK and we moved back to the United States. Uh, and I I was joined, I went back into JJ. At that time, JJ had restructured and I became part of the immunology therapeutic area, um, stepping in to manage a really fast-growing external collaboration portfolio. Uh so JJ was recognizing at the time, um, this was sort of 2000 and and 10, that really to drive their early stage portfolio, their discovery to early stage sort of IND enabling studies. Um, they could leverage um outside partners to do it a number of different ways, whether it was faster and quicker, um, or to partner on the same types of targets and molecules with external companies. So I started to manage a large portfolio of collaborations around the world, which was an exciting opportunity, but then also grow a team in the space. So it was not only business operations, operations and research operations, but really managing alliances and collaborations and building a bicoastal team to do that. Um, and then I had the opportunity to um go back to school and I went to MBA, uh, sorry, Berkeley to get my MBA because I really wanted to think about other parts of business management. Um, you know, I had never really had formal education and um accounting and finance and marketing and all the things um that are pretty essential as you're you're moving up in your career, I think, on the business side of science. Uh so went to Berkeley, had an incredible time, a really trend transformational time, I think, for my career as well. And coming back, I had the opportunity to step into Jane Day Innovation, which is a different part of the organization, um, really sitting between the interface of the internal portfolios, whether on the pharmaceutical R ⁇ D or commercial side, but then also in the external space. Um, so I had some strategic working on some strategic projects there, um, managing portfolios of collaborations again around the world. Um, and the opportunity to work with J Labs then came up. So I was part of the early team uh that looked at the business model of opening up the Mid-Atlantic office in Washington, D.C. And so that was a side project when I was still in San Diego. And um once that was green-lighted um from senior leadership at JJ, I jumped at the opportunity to to move into, to interview and move into that head role to move back to Washington, D.C. and really open that business.

Yeah. Well, let me let me let me one last question, Carth. And uh and this is a commercial for Fralin, the Fraylin Biomedical Institute. We've we had another pod recently where Roanoke used to be a railroad town that became a banking town, and now it's become a biotechnology town. So we're led by the really uh terrific Mike Friedlander. And I that's been what, 20 years ago, or it's been going on. Fifty years. So that's the next question for you, and then I'll turn it over to you, Carthen. Is that uh so you're showing up now that he's there's something here, there's a there there. Was that part of the recruiting? And the fact that you were a double hokey was just too hard to turn this down? How about the getting back part?

Right. So I had an opportunity to work uh overlapping with Virginia Tech at Children's National Research and Innovation Campus. Uh so J Labs at Washington, D.C. is based on the campus there. And Virginia Tech has um a growing footprint, um, longtime collaborators and strategic partners with Children's National. So as we overlapped um at the at that location and and in that group of organizations, um, it's really where I had the opportunity to collaborate and understand a little bit more of the early stage portfolio of biotechs that are spinning out of FBRI and work somewhere with some with the principal investigators there. Uh and that's really how I became more familiar also with the Frameland Biomedical Research Institute and and the culture and the people and the incredible science. And uh about a year and a half, almost two years ago, um Mike approached me about an opportunity and and we really took conversations from there.

It's some hazard deal you couldn't burn down, right?

Absolutely.

So that was that broad took my question, but anyway, that that's uh that was your path to get back to to Roanoke. You're here based in here, right?

I'm actually not. I'm based up in the Washington, D.C. area, but I'm down here in Roanoke every couple weeks. Uh, you know, we have a footprint, as I mentioned, um, in in in Northwest D.C., Children's National, uh, we have a cancer research center there. Uh that is a growing group and a center, and that will continue to grow with the additional of um other principal investigators. And we also work closely with the Singani Center for AI at Virginia Tech's institution, Institute of Artificial Intelligence in Alexandria. So as you think about our footprint, yes, 90% of it is is within Roanoke with the Frayland Biomedical Research Institute, but we we have a growing footprint in the Northwest DC and Northern Virginia area, outside of the larger Virginia Tech footprint. Um it's great to be able to be in in both places.

Well, uh two quick questions. One, speaking of the collaboration or the additional areas of interest in Northern Virginia that you just mentioned, do you collaborate with any other institutions in the DC area?

Strategic partners?

Yes.

Not at this time. I you know, Virginia Tech has a number of of partnerships and collaborations. So we think of you know the the larger footprint um for the university, whether that's in Arlington or Alexandria, um, you know, one of my opportunities is to start building even more um external collaborations. You know, our principal investigators have ongoing research agreements and collaborations with with industry, with other biotechs, with other research institutes. Um I when we think of strategic collaborations, though, with say master affiliation agreements and and and larger complex collaborations, um, obviously Children's National, and then here in Roanoke with Caroline Clinic. Um, but one of my opportunities is to look at uh some of our research, you know, our talent, and what more can we be doing with industry? And and so looking at that, what we call the DMV area around Northern Virginia and DC, and also in Maryland, and you you look at the overlapping um pharmaceutical companies, uh companies that are working in celling gene therapy, um, and also biotechs. It's a it's an opportunity for we can certainly drive um even more collaborations.

But you've also now become more involved in the what's referred to as the diamond collaboration, which is by using the Virginia way. It's historically our way here in the Commonwealth has been that universities have been somewhat sallowed when it came to their research uh developments. But this is an opportunity that's somewhat unique in Virginia to have four universities collaborate in the pharma area.

Um, yeah, I think there's uh there's there's certainly ongoing collaborations in in many regards um between the different institutes or between medical centers, you know, a principal investigators uh uh work collaborative with other other institutions and universities. We think of um hospital systems and clinical trials. You know, I think we're very integrated um across the Commonwealth. I think what's what's different now is um and probably hearing even more from an amplification from the Commonwealth and from the Governor's Office is the deliberate um, you know, bringing together institutions to talk about what more can we be doing with one another. So, yes, the governor's had an initiative, um, certainly been fueling opportunities with state funds, but how do we more formalize um uh hubs across the region to do even more together? So, yes, you could we we look at those hubs. I look at the hubs so we in in in Richmond and what's going on in in Petersburg, Charlottesville around University of Virginia, um uh the Rona Blacksburg region, um, and then I think that fourth.

Catword, not golfing with the Old Dominion.

Old Dominion. Yeah.

Well then this may be a good chance because if most people who are listening to this podcast are we're not gonna have your background or my background as it relates to discovery. Although last night I was watching the news and I realized there were two types of commercials on the news uh personal injury attorneys and pharmaceuticals. Literally everybody knows the for from Kitruda to you know everybody knows the Wagovies to the all this stuff. Take us the process from somebody has an idea on a chalkboard at a place like Virginia Tech to uh getting that thing to commercialization through clinical trials and ultimately into patient populations. I mean, for can you do that for like an eighth grader to say what does that process look like, um, whether it's J Labs, Virginia Tech, or anywhere?

Aaron Powell Sure, I can do my best. It's it's a really long process, right? It it I think to get a drug to market could be a 10-year um struggle um and and you know,$10 billion. So it's and these are these are biologics or um advanced therapeutics like you know, antibody drug conjugates, we can start thinking about cell engine therapy as well. So it's it's a chal it's a challenging uphill um you could struggle or opportunity, right? Our patients are waiting. Um so real simply, it's you know, if I I think about a small molecule, it's you know, what what target are we trying to hit? Is it a a a pathway? Um is it a protein? Um and so scientists at the bench are are going to have a structure and they're going to um you know make changes to this that structure and and how do you how is it unique to other structures previously known? And and then you're gonna take a lot of those molecules in vivo, so really early um mouse animal studies. And so there's this iteration, say, on a small molecule uh for compounds, and and um and and then how do you identify what would be called lead compounds to take that even further through what we call IND enabling studies, so toxicity, et cetera. Um, and so that's a long process. It's costly. A small biotech company um can typically, you typically see small biotechs take it uh to make maybe phase one into human clinical trials to look at safety and efficacy. Um I think the way the the process and and and is is set up in the US certainly is um, you know, small biotechs will look for venture funding outside of federally funded early which which fuels the early stage of research. Uh and once you get to that uh maybe phase one with venture, really the best way to take things forward is is to partner typically with Big Pharma for a number of reasons. One, they have the expertise on the regulatory, um, they have the expertise in designing clinical trials, um, and they can they can afford it.

They've got the money.

They've got the money. But that's that's the that has been the typical pathway. Um I think you know certainly um there's a lot of things to watch as we move forward on on regulatory. Um there's a lot of discussions on how do we reduce those timelines, how do we reduce clinical trials so they're less costly. And also as we look at different modalities, um pathways are also different. Um but it's really challenging. It's it's very challenging to to get to even just phase one.

So it's hard to know early on who the right horse is. It's like being in a race with 100 horses and trying to pick who's gonna win out of that hundred horses. Also, real quickly, just one last follow-up question. Can you explain what the valley of death is?

Yeah, that's a that's a great it's it it's really funding your research, I look at it as funding your research, right? It's it's getting through that early um proof of concept, proof of principle data to getting um to later stage studies um to to to further your asset or your platform technology. So it's you know, I I look at it as a it's a constant roller coaster. Um for for entrepreneurs and CEOs, um, you know, is a great term. You're gonna need twice as much as you think you you're gonna need, and it's gonna take you twice as long as you think it's gonna take you. And so, you know, CEOs are are are always on on are always fundraising. That doesn't really go away to push this the science forward. Um so it's it's it's entrepreneurship is one of the hardest things I think to to do, certainly in the the life sciences and health sciences spaces.

Aaron Powell Yeah, let me just make one quick commentary, Carth and I'll turn it back over to you. There was a great card in the Wall Street Journal a year ago, maybe a year ago, that talked about cancer care, just as we look at cancer care, that we've gotten pretty good at it, meaning people now are living longer, they're uh with being treated with cancer as a chronic disease, and some of these conjugates and these other latest technologies. We're several steps ahead of what we think maybe ultimately we'd hate to use the C word, but the other C-word, which is cure. But but that's the other exciting part about science, though, that that because I work in the same space you do, that and I'm not I have no background in science, but I love being around people like you because I kind of feel like that, yes, it's a lot at stake, there's a lot going on, I know there's good days and there's bad days, but boy, it seems like you're on the verge of really we're on the verge of a great scientific renaissance. If, you know, we just have to get there. We're sort of in that final in the red zone, ready to score the touchdown. And it's really, I find it very um enthusiastic, and I found the work that you do in particular, which is one of the reasons we wanted to have you on the show, the work that you and the your colleagues at Fraylin do is um is right there with anybody in the world. So thank you.

You know, I I give so much respect to all of the principal investigators that that are at FBRI and and other uh departments across the university. I mean, they are the trailblazers and they're questioning the science constantly and um and also you know, really working hard to to fund their research. Um I've I've met a lot of them who have a love for science and and really wanted their careers about to be about conducting research. Um a lot of them will tell you they spend 80% of their time writing, whether that's writing for for grants and and funding opportunities or or writing up uh their papers. Um but they're yeah, they're incredible people with doing really important work. And and I think too, we have to think about our health, and that's an investment. So, you know, all of all of the funds that we put towards research is investment in human health. Um and it's and it's not necessarily just coming from the federal side, you know, we we do a lot of work with foundations and uh philanthropies. Uh, there's a lot of organizations that that recognize the value to to fund research to drive for cures. Oncology and cancer, as you mentioned, has gotten uh a lot of support and and is it is the number one um you know disease area that is funded, certainly in the United States. If you look at both um federal funding and and and and private equity, uh cancer is and oncology is number one. So, you know, what what's behind that? It's is certainly more um you're looking at more um immunological um diseases, also you know, um neuroscience and um looking at Alzheimer's and and other types of epilepsies is is behind it as well. So it's um it's really important work for all of us.

Yeah, thank you. Excuse me. Sally, can you give us a little looking to the future in your title? It's Growth and Innovation. Uh over the next three to five years, or Freyland, for example, can you give us some put your crystal ball on about what kind of growth you see happening at Freyland here in Rondeau?

Yeah, absolutely. It's an exciting time, and and that's why I joined. Uh, you know, if anyone knows Dr. Mike Friedlander, I I make the analogy to the Energizer Bunny from the 1990s commercial.

It's accurate.

Trying to keep up with Mike. Um, but that's also it's an exciting time. And I joined because I I saw a lot of opportunities for growth and I wanted to be a part of that and building, building, and uh building on things. Um so two two really exciting projects that we're working on uh is supporting uh Mike and his efforts to build the patient research center. Uh so this is a$30 million investment from the Commonwealth uh to build a research center as part of FBRI, again, focus in strategic areas that we're interested in oncology and neuroscience and cardiovascular. And these will be principal investigators that are physicians and clinicians. Uh so they will be doing and and running, these are will be individuals that have their own labs conducting their own research, but also physicians. So how do they make that translation and work also in the clinic? And that will be in partnership with Carillion. Uh so to me, it's an even closer step uh to potentially um, you know, having assets in the clinic faster. Uh so as part of that, we'll uh these physicians, clinicians will be supporting um industry investigator trials as well. Uh so that's a that's a huge build over the next five years, three to five years. Um we'll be we'll be announcing new hires um for that uh entity in the PRC, I think early next year's, which is exciting. So that's that's kicked off. And the second um project, strategic project that we're working on, also supported by the uh the governor's office and um and funding from the Commonwealth, is a GMP manufacturing opportunity. So in partnership uh with Children's National, um, we're looking at how we could potentially bring their capabilities in cell and gene therapy manufacturing to Roanoke. Uh so this will be supporting uh a GMP manufacturing location in Roanoke, and how we could support either cell therapies or gene therapies being manufactured at a small scale, right here in Roanoke, uh, with the potential uh also in partnering with Carillion uh to take those therapies um into the clinic.

Aaron Powell And the reason that's so unique is because that's highly personalized to the patient too, right?

Right.

Yeah. So when you talk about manufacturing, that would be very unique to each patient.

Absolutely. And those and those capabilities are not currently in this region. And actually, if you look across the Commonwealth, um there's no small-scale um GMP manufacturing um sites. Uh and so, but this is where this is where that industry is moving. So how do you decentralize those type of capabilities to bring it closer to the patient? And so it's uh it's a new model. Um, you know, there's not very many cellar gene therapies that have been FDA approved, um, but it's where the industry is is going. So as we look back, you know, 30 years ago and 20 years ago in biologics, you know, as we look forward in in what are the next um, you know, solutions for some of our diseases, it's it's certainly going to be in the cell and gene therapy space.

Aaron Powell So this growth, uh that type of manufacturing would be uh small scale as far as numbers of people or would have to be small scale because it's it's individualized for every species.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So this would be a small-scale operation to start, um, you know, certainly to get it off the ground. Um it it already exists at Children's National. So Patrick Hanley and and Dr. Kath Bollard uh run a um uh a group there at Children's National, and they've been doing it for years. Um Children's National is one of our strategic partners. So we're looking at how how can we bring that those capabilities and build something here, um, what that business model looks like and is a TVD, but hopefully we'll have something exciting to talk about in the future.

Um and just in the last year, um and this is going to relate to the pharma companies moving to Virginia, which is you know a great thing, is that people forget Novo Nordisc, but Novo Nordisk was the first which purchased the old uh AMPAC facility in Petersburg, but then you had uh AstraZeneca, Eli Lilly, um, and now Merck has announced a major um expansion. So Virginia has sort of become in the last year sort of the epicenter of pharma companies with reshoring or onshoring pharmaceuticals. How do you think Virginia Tech plays into that? I mean, you and I were at a meeting the other day where I think the obvious thing is workforce. They're gonna need people to to be in these operations, and we're in the business of of training uh people. But do you do what made Virginia so attractive? Do you think it's the work we were already doing here or or um what made this what's what's leading to this thing and in your personal not Virginia Tech, but Sally talking?

Yeah, I think it is the it's the growing opportunity across the state. I think you hit on it well. Um the the sys success of FLO and Civica, uh, and then the the growth in Richmond. Um certainly the the great work uh that VCU has been doing and and Medicines for All, I think is a great example of showing what those opportunities could be. Um and so I I can't speak for what the incentives were from the governor Chris Office.

That helps, right?

But also, you know, too, you know, it it's a time and place where the U.S. is certainly saying we need to start bringing manufacturing back to the U.S. I think there's incentives probably federally for the bigger pharma companies. Um but it's for for Virginia, it's a huge win. So as you mentioned, AstraZeneca is is standing up a manufacturing plant, Eli Lilly. Uh both of those plants will be uh focused on you know small molecules and antibody drug conjugates. Um Merck has been in Elkton, Virginia, and for a while they're doing a$3 billion expansion as well. So certainly huge opportunities for workforce and talent. Um I mean these centers will open in five years. It sounds like far away, but it's probably going to be tomorrow. So we're excited about um building a talent pipeline that could feed, uh, feed that from a you know post-undergraduate, graduate degree programs. Uh for Virginia Tech, I think we can certainly win on the industrial systems and engineering side as well. Virginia Tech leads an engineering side. In the state. So, you know, working with my colleagues, that uh their whole focus of research is in biomanufacturing and systems, in robotics, um, in in AI, I think there's a lot of overlap that we're certainly excited to see what partnerships we can drive there and bring our expertise to the table as these sites uh start you know standing up, um, but also bringing in uh students, experts from graduate programs to start shaping um some of the models for the for the companies.

Uh I'm gonna make one last comment and then I'm gonna turn it over to you for the final question, Carthen. Um I was with you up in Rockville, I think, a month or so ago, whatever that big conference is up there. And and Carthen and I are both from the part of Virginia that that gets close to North Carolina, so we look at North Carolina a lot. But I noticed that DMV or Delaware, Maryland, Virginia is a top, you know, Boston leads in California. But DMV is pretty high, but also North Carolina is pretty high. So if you to me that what I've immediately thought of is if you connect DMV through Virginia into North Carolina, you have a corridor that's probably as number one in the country. And I still think one, we're a right-to-work state, and number two, um, you've got pretty significant assets already in the DMV area, significant in North Carolina. So in some ways, this is a little logical, that this is not illogical uh when you think of geography. So that's my my take on what you said too. And we've got good universities here. We don't work together as well as North Carolina, but we're working on that.

Absolutely. And I you know, I think it's a big initiative too via uh uh an initiative called BRIC, you know, looking at what they're elevating. You know, man there's a lot of manufacturing in that corridor already.

Yes.

Between uh where we sit here in Roanoke and Blacksburg, all the way down into North Carolina. It's a tremendous amount of manufacturing. So amplifying what is already going on and and our capabilities and our expertise, and and then expanding on that, I think, is is is is the for future. Um you know, the the Commonwealth is is sitting really well, I think, financially as well. So that's big for for the Commonwealth of Virginia.

AAA.

Absolutely. And so how does that growth continue? Um and and also, you know, we were at this conversation yesterday in in Richmond and talking about keeping our graduates in the Commonwealth. You know, when I left Virginia Tech um, you know, 25 years or so ago, there weren't companies to like AZ or Eli Lilly to land even in the in the Maryland area, right? That growth has been huge over the last 20 years, as well as you look at the expansion of of companies like AZ and ThermoFisher and Kite and others in in that region, which is really not too far um from here when you think about it. But those companies didn't exist. So it's exciting to see the opportunities for Virginia graduates to potentially remain and stay in the Commonwealth. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Terrific. Well, uh back to the economic development aspect of what all this has meant. Uh Brian touched on Rundug's past being a railroad town and later evolving into a banking center for Southwest Virginia. Uh can you tell me approximately how many folks the Frayl Institute employees and where you see that growth continuing to expand?

Yeah, so currently FBRI has about 45 principal investigators, but over 700 employees. And I think I was looking at numbers yesterday. Um, and uh the economic development, so the impact to the economy is calculated at about$1.8 billion.

Unbelievable.

And we're growing.

And and it's a fairly new it's 15 years.

15 years. It's one of the fastest growing institutes, research institutes in the United States. Um and the Star City. And we have even more planned.

Yeah. Well, look, um, we've run out of time. Uh because you're so busy, you've got a lot of things on your plate. So you were very kind and gracious to provide the time of your day. Is there anything else you'd like to uh add uh before we wrap up?

No, thanks for having me. I I I think we're certainly excited. There's a a lot of things on our calendar already for next year. You know, we open our doors for the community uh through a number of different opportunities, whether that's a lecture series, um, you know, we have a brain initiative that we bring in the community. Uh there'll be two, if not three, symposiums and conferences in Roanoke next year. Um that you know, one's a big exercise science.

Um The biggest in the world or something, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. That will be hosted in in Roanoke next year. Um we're looking at a at a neuropsych psychiatry uh symposium conference next year as well. So definitely encourage uh anyone in in this region to to look into opportunities to connect with.

And you can send up for all this to your website, Frayland Biomedical Research.

Yeah, just go we'll have to have you back, Sally, to to continue to measure the growth. She'll be too busy to come back, probably. But that's we're in Ronda, girl. Just I'm us next door.

It's an exciting time.

Thanks, Sally. Thank you for joining us today on the Virginians of Interest Podcast. If you like what you've heard today, please be sure and like and subscribe to this podcast.

Thank you for listening to the Virginians of Interest Podcast. To hear other episodes of this podcast, head to Virginiansofinterest.com.