And now from the Blue Ridge PBS studios in Roanoke, virginia. It's the Virginians of Interest podcast, with your hosts Brian Campbell and Karthin Curran.

Welcome to the Virginians of Interest podcast. My name is Brian Campbell. I'm here with my friend Karthin Curran. We'd like Karthin to introduce a special guest for the day.

Thank you, brian. We have with us this morning Paul Steiner with the Fairfax County School System, public School System and with Adult Education. Paul, welcome to Virginia's Adventures.

Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here.

I can't. How did you find out about us? Because I think Lana, who works with you, reached out to me. I was just curious how you learned about the Virginians of Ventures podcast.

Fairfax is we're doing our absolute best to build awareness and to spread the word. I'm very passionate about workforce development, registered apprenticeship and other career credentialing, and so we're just trying to get the word out to as many people as possible to, you know, inform them about the opportunities that we offer and the opportunities that are here in the Commonwealth. So I believe we kind of made some connections, you know, and this is a great platform, excellent podcast and just a great way to spread the word and get the word out about the opportunities for Virginians with registered apprenticeship and other career credentialing opportunities.

Well, thank you for the plug. I appreciate that. And what you do? Is it Fairfax County-centric or do you help adjoining counties and their school systems, or are you just Fairfax County-focused?

Good question. So we are part of Fairfax County Public Schools and we offer registered apprenticeship classes and career credentialing classes in business, it, health and medical legal areas and a wide range of courses and topics. We are based in Fairfax, we operate in-person classes in Fairfax, but we also operate a lot of online classes that are available really to anyone. They're not bound geographically and I would say that we are really focused on the region and just serving as many learners as possible.

Obviously, it's easy for residents of Fairfax to access the classes. They're close in proximity, they're familiar with us, they would receive our catalogs and our media. But the fact of the matter is that we're really an opportunity for the region and really anyone who just wants to take courses and is able to find us and connect with a course that they're interested in. For our in-person courses, we've had people come from as far away as Pennsylvania, um, for, let's say, a plumbing course that that meets at 6 PM in the evening, okay, um, and we uh, this last semester, we had some HVAC students, uh, they came from Richmond to take courses with us, uh, in Falls Church because they're, you know, they want to get the in-person apprenticeship courses in for their licensure.

This is a fascinating topic. I think our country is drastically in need of this type of work that you're doing. But it also seemed to me that that business didn't change very much until a couple of years ago, and I know in Virginia specifically, governor Youngkin sort of revamped all of what we cut under a broad tent called workforce development. What did workforce development look like 10 years ago? What does it look like today, and what were the things that needed to be fixed?

So, you know, 10 years ago there was not as much emphasis on the trades and I would say that the opportunity of the trades and skilled trades and apprenticeship and other credentialing opportunities I honestly think that was kind of just picking up and just starting interest in opportunities and pathways that would allow students to maybe pursue an education or complete an education, get a professional license or a credential, without a four-year institution and really without student debt.

So we started to see a shift about eight to ten years ago in terms of the population of young people. Okay, I was a classroom teacher, I was a high school administrator specializing in career and technical education prior to coming on board as the administrator for adult ed in about 2019. So I was kind of front row seat to this where I saw a paradigm shift of young people. You know they're interested in college, they hear a lot about it. People you know they're interested in college, they hear a lot about it, but now they're starting to be interested in looking for other pathways and other opportunities that doesn't require a four-year degree and allows them to get into the workforce very quickly and ultimately results in them not accruing a significant amount of student debt with a lot of different arms and it seems like, at least in Virginia with Governor Youngkin, that they tried to streamline it and make it a little bit more centralized.

Perhaps Is that correct, or is that, in my assessment, correct or incorrect? Yes, they are working. We're all kind of working towards streamlining and this is a good example of kind of what I've seen. So if a young person goes to a career fair, okay, a community college will generally give that student a very clear ladder of courses that that student would follow if they were pursuing, let's say, an associate's degree in accounting. You take accounting one, you take accounting two, english, maybe some other things. Very clear ladder Accounting one. You take accounting two, english, maybe some other things. Very clear ladder With apprenticeship and some other fields.

In the Commonwealth there's a lot of different ways that you can pursue a license In the Commonwealth of Virginia for plumbing. You need 8,000 hours on the job. You need a minimum of 320 hours of classroom time and it doesn't matter where you start or what you start first. You can start and accruing hours first. You can work for a long time before you even take your first class. You can start with classes. You can start with classes and get comfortable with the material and then pursue jobs and then start accruing your 8,000 hours. So that flexibility is great for a lot of people. It definitely helps a lot of students, however,000 hours. So that flexibility is great for a lot of people. It definitely helps a lot of students.

However, for a young person that's coming into the workforce, you know that young person and their parents are kind of saying, oh, what are the clear steps and this flexible option, like I said, it's a good option, but people like being told what to do. So that career ladder of take accounting one, take accounting two, take this English class you know people like that. So that's something that we're dealing with. And then they are streamlining that um in terms of paths of licensure and and doing different things to uh, uh, just connect more young people and really people of all ages with these opportunities. So that's an ongoing effort just to meet the needs in the workforce. Of the fact, the matter is, we need more people in skilled trades. We need people in a lot of areas where we have a group of workers that is, you know, getting closer at retirement age.

Yeah, carleton, good point. Do you focus strictly on adults or do you also have some do you offer classes for, like juniors, seniors in high school?

Um. So we we do offer classes, um, and we would allow students as young as 16 to enter into some of our apprenticeship classes. Um, and I really want to be an EMT. I can start that training process prior to graduating high school, and perhaps the high school I go to they don't have an EMT course. That's easy for me to access, or I'd have to commute across county for an EMT course. My courses could be very close, it could be in their backyard County for an EMT course. My courses could be very close, it could be in their backyard, and so students are able to start early.

And I would recommend that all young people you know in the Commonwealth would really look at their opportunities at their high school, their career and technical education opportunities. Think about how they can access those and what they can do. Um, I talk a lot with a lot of seniors that are really close to graduation and they're like, yeah, looking back, I wish I would have done this Right. I wish I would have taken advantage of the program at Edison high school or Lee or excuse me, um Lewis high High School or, you know, any of the other high schools here in Fairfax or around the region. So really I would, you know, highly encourage students to really look at those CTE opportunities when they're freshmen, sophomore and think about taking advantage of those, because those programs are great. It definitely gets your your apprenticeships kick-started or your health and medical career kick-started, definitely gives you a leg up and gets you into the workforce very quickly.

Fairfax is the largest school system in the Commonwealth, correct, I believe.

I believe. So yeah, I think, virginia.

Beach is number two, surprisingly, but I think Fairfax is still number one. I mean Loudon, everything up there is in the running. If you look at the top 10, a lot of the schools up there are going to be in the top 10. So you're dealing with a lot of big population, is my point. And so historically and Karth and I are older guys that when I thought of Northern Virginia, you focused on Langley, in other words kids that were going to the top schools and the athletes, but there's still a lot of kids that need to have other pathways. And you also think of the trades. And when you go to Northern Virginia, there's a lot of people working in cool things like cybersecurity, but they all have to work in buildings and they all have to live in houses and they all use bathrooms. So, in other words, and they all turn lights on.

So was this a problem also where there was an unmet need in your community. For, like everywhere in the country, we suddenly woke up one day and realized we had we had plenty of people with college degrees and not enough people who knew how to plaster. And you know, having worked in high schools, you know I'm not faulting any high school teachers, you know my sister's a high school English teacher, but they you know a lot of them they don't know about some of the opportunities with registered apprenticeship or some of the opportunities with skilled trade, ok, and so If they don't know about it, they're not necessarily going to share that with students. And so that's one of the things that we do is we work with a lot of high school personnel just to share the message and develop a better understanding of the opportunities for young people. Then there is definitely an unmet need because, you know, if we're going to build new technology, if we're going to build new technology, if we're going to build a state-of-the-art hospital, it's still going to take tradespeople to make sure the hospital gets built on time, has all the requisite infrastructure that we need, and then someone's going to have to come in and maintain that infrastructure. So there's definitely, you know a constant need for tradespeople to come into the workforce and either continue the work or begin new work in terms of just the infrastructure that we need.

One of the things that I share with young people is, if you think about some of these skilled trade jobs, they're jobs that would be very, very difficult or nearly impossible to automate. So if you're an electrician, you wake up every day and you're doing different tasks every day. Today you might be working at grandma's house putting in a ceiling fan. Tomorrow you're going to be working and you're going to be running a new service line for an electrical panel for a new home Very different tasks. Line for an electrical panel for a new home, very different tasks. But those very different tasks are something that a robot or a computer or software would never be able to do.

So that job is very, very safe from automation. So those are some of the things that we talk about with young people in terms of the opportunities in the trades. All right, that's a very safe job. Obviously, it all happens here. It can't be sent to another country. So the number one threat to jobs is really automation, and if you are using your critical thinking skills every day with different and unique tasks it's going to be nearly impossible to automate, and so those are opportunities that I share, know I share with people, and it's the way that I see things going in terms of the workforce with skilled trades.

Carlton.

Oh, tell me, Paul, the size of your classes. Do they range, I guess, depending upon the specific course offering? And I was curious about your funding. Is it strictly from Fairfax County or do you have other funding sources that help support your programs?

Okay. So why don't I start with funding? We are supported by Fairfax County Public Schools, but students do pay tuition, all right. So these are adult students that are outside of the K-12 compulsory program, so they pay tuition. That are outside of the K-12 compulsory program, so they pay tuition. For an apprenticeship course, tuition is going to range from $1,500 to $2,000, depending on the course, the materials and the level, and courses run on a semester, and students generally need at least four courses to get their license. Okay, um, so we do receive support from the school board, but our students pay tuition.

Um, you know, I don't think this is a secret, but I think we definitely need more young people to understand that many of my students and many apprenticeship students, skilled trade students in other career areas. They come into our classes after being referred to us by an employer, and so the employer actually will pay for their education or a portion of it. Many students have agreements where, if they get an A or B, their employer will then reimburse them for the full amount, and so that's really, really powerful in terms of pursuing an education, getting everything you need for licensure and getting your credential and really having someone else pick up the tab Right, and so that is something that once again, a message we want to get out to more Virginians in terms of the opportunities here with career credentialing opportunities and skilled trade opportunities in the Commonwealth. And then there's more and more funds available for employers to pay for students, apprentices, to get these certifications and help the workforce grow. So there's really good opportunities here for funding on the employer and individual student level.

Okay, do some of them.

Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, excuse me. And so you know, in terms of funding, we receive some support, but students pay tuition. A lot of students are essentially on scholarship from their employer or tuition reimbursement, whatever system they have with their employer.

So are you drawing students from outside of Fairfax County, I presume? I think you indicated you are yes, maybe outside the state? Apparently I think you indicated you are yes, maybe that's out of the state, apparently.

Yeah. So we, you know, we publish media and we recruit students from, you know, within Fairfax. We have a catalog that goes out to. We try and make sure it reaches every household in Fairfax, okay, so when we publish, that's about 500,000 copies, okay, and we do that maybe once or twice a year, um, but we've been in place for about 60 years. We've had people go through our classes. Now they own businesses and they send their employees to us for training.

So there's really we, we have excellent word of mouth and knowledge within Fairfax, and then what happens is, uh, you know, if, if I run an electrical company in Fairfax, I'm going to have employees all over the place. You know, they might live in Prince William or you know, as far away as Spotsylvania or Stafford or even further South, um, and they, uh, you know, they will have their employees come to us for training, um, and so we really draw from the region, um, and with social media, with online courses, you know, we are no longer bound by geography. So, um, you know, if we put an advertisement out for, uh, upcoming apprenticeship courses or a nursing course or an EMT course, um, we will have students that are, you know, outside of Fairfax County or outside of the region. It really just depends on what that student is looking for, if they're able to access us and the timing of the course fits for their schedule.

Let me tell you a quick story and then I want your response on what I perceive to be the legacy of vocational education in Virginia. I was in Fairfax. I was in a rural public high school and it was decided pretty early on that I was going to be a vocational kid, you know, versus a college-bound kid. But for whatever reason I scored highly on some English exams so I would be an honors English in going to medals class. And the English teacher grabbed me one day and said you're the only kid that leaves here to go there. And the reason he told me that was it was perceived even back then as a bit of a caste system that you know all the attention went to the kids going to college and everybody else got sent to either the vocational or military or whatever else.

Now in Richmond I know I don't want to say which county it is because I live in Richmond but there's this celebration they have for people doing apprenticeships, much like college scholarships.

So in other words, you know one day you'll see a kid going to Radford on a soccer scholarship but then they'll have another ceremony with the kids going into HVAC and plumbing and all this other stuff. Wasn't there this sort of I hate to use the word caste because it sounds extreme, but it was kind of like a caste system that there there were decisions that were made for kids and it was hard to move in and out of that system if you were on one track. I've worked in blue-white collar work my entire life, even though I spent my high school years in a vocational training thing. I just found out that I was more attuned to that. Is that part of what we're trying to overcome here? Is this idea that if you don't go to college, if you go into a vocational thing, that somehow that's lesser than if you were to go study philosophy at a four-year college.

So I would call that the blue-collar bias, and I've been in education in Virginia for 20 years and right now I feel it's like the in terms of breaking down that blue-collar's. It's the best that it's ever been. Okay, I agree.

And I think people are coming around and they're in tune with the opportunities. Um, you know, I have. I distinctly remember, um, my first year teaching, I had a student, uh, his, uh, had some discussions with with his parents because, uh, uh, I was a football coach and they were part of the football team, okay, yeah, and his father was a brick Mason and he was adamant about making sure that his son did not become a brick Mason. Right, and I, I scratched my head because it's like you have a very, very good family business, right? Um, uh, you know, and I think, as a son matriculated through high school, I, I, you know, I do believe that his son ended up being part of the family business. I don't know if he actually learned the trade as a brick Mason.

Now, 20 years later, um, there is that emphasis and that recognition of the opportunities here for skilled trades, and one of the things that's helped that break down is like that blue collar bias. Breaking down is technology and realization. You know, reliance on technology is reliance on skilled trades and also, these skilled trades are very high tech, right? Um, you know, even if you are, uh, having your water heater replaced, right, there's a lot of technology that goes into that. And then the way those uh plumbers are dispatched to your home, the way that they interface with, uh, uh, their company, uh, they are, you know, using tablets. It's very high tech. Um, you know, if they're looking at blueprints, they're probably going to be looking at blueprints on a tablet, um, and then everything they do is really about efficiency.

Um, and the technology has really kind of helped, broken, broke that down, broke down some of that bias where it's like, yeah, you know, you're going to be turning a wrench all day. Well, that's actually not true, right? There's a lot of technology that goes into what we're doing with infrastructure now. So you really have to be close to the cutting edge.

Great Arthur.

Oh, did we touch on class size?

Yep, we need to follow up on that. So class size, that's a great question. So I have classes that typically range. I mean, we have a wide range of classes, Okay. So we have classes that would range from five students all the way to about 25. 25 is my cap.

At times, we have to overload classes, and the reason that we have to overload classes is because one of the number one barriers that we have is finding qualified teachers, and so this is something you hear about in the K-12 program. It's a problem in the adult program also. If I want to have a course for a certified nurse's assistant, I have to have a qualified individual that's willing to teach that class, and that's one of those things where finding a person that can do that and that's willing to teach that class, and that's one of those things where finding a person that can do that and that's willing to do that. You know, it's like finding a unicorn, right? So one of our biggest barriers is finding qualified people that want to give back and teach these classes. I think we pay pretty well in terms of teaching class.

We offer a lot of flexibility because now classes are in person, but we also, you know, we utilize a hybrid option for some classes. So we can students can meet on Zoom. If we're having a session where we're just doing theory, Zoom would be fine for that. Zoom might be better for presentations and different things. So you know, lots of flexibility for instructors and flexibility for students.

But in terms of class size, lots of times class size is driven by the number of seats that I have available because I have this many instructors and so one of the things that I also talk about I want to spread the word to you know, all Virginians is if you're interested in giving back and maybe earning some extra money as an instructor. You know, think about you know, giving back and sharing your profession with young people and with others that really want to come into the profession and get training. You know I'd love to have more teachers, but I know everywhere in Virginia, community colleges and other educational bodies are hurting in terms of teachers and the number of seats they can provide to students because of teachers. So five to about 25 is where we live with terms of seats and student to teacher ratio. But it's really driven by the number of teachers that we have or do not have.

Thank you for that information, paul. How many teachers do you have currently in your program? And I'm curious too, your interactions with the community college. I can't recall it used to be Lord Fairfax, but do you have connections, I presume, with the community colleges in the region or or in other parts of the Commonwealth offer courses that?

students will not have the opportunity to take at Northern Virginia Community College and so, geographically, Northern Virginia Community College is the closest to where we operate.

Ok, because we're both in Fairfax and that Northern Virginia area, Lord Fairfax, which is now Laurel Ridge. They do offer trade and apprenticeship courses and we both utilize a curriculum that is provided by the National Center for Construction Education and Research, NCCER. So we utilize that curriculum because that curriculum is nationally recognized, it's updated, it's very easy for my program to implement and utilize and every student gets a student profile. They get a number, that number follows them and then they can take that number and their learning what they've accomplished, courses they've completed, and then they can take it to other institutions. You know I'd love for my students to stay here in Virginia, but that just their student number, their student transcript from NCCER and, depending on the regulations generally, they'll get some reciprocity. So if a student comes to us and takes Electrical 1 and 2, provides the transcript shows that he or she has completed that, they should be able to get into Electrical 2, excuse me, electrical three and four with the community college.

Thank you, let me switch gears a little bit. You know you had a really interesting response a few minutes ago about the kid going to work in a hospital, and you know. But you have to get the hospital up and running with everything from software to electricity. So there's also a big discussion in our country right now on manufacturing. We've got these trade deficits with other countries and part of it is because we used to have a manufacturing base that's largely gone away.

I was in a meeting just yesterday with this topic and then it seemed to us that there were two big problems. One, interest, right that people a child today or a young person today you mentioned just the word manufacturing and it appears to be people with hard hats, waiting in long lines to go to work in a dirty place, you know, and so there doesn't appear to be interest in it. And then the other thing is that the truth is manufacturing facilities today, in the 21st century, don't look like they do in the 20th century. So if we are going to at least put a dent in this issue of making more things in this country, do you think those are the two big issues? And are you? Uh, what are you? What are you doing as part of your group to address this issue of uh preparing a young people for potential for manufacturing jobs?

So, um, I I share your sentiments in terms of you know manufacturing and young people getting interested in um, you know skilled trades, like we see it, like. If you're driving through, you know, uh, northern Virginia or you know any areas in Virginia, you see some construction, you see the skilled trades, right, and so you get an idea. And, uh, one of the gauges that I use with students is like draw a picture of a nurse, draw a picture of an electrician, right, and they can, you know, they'll draw a stick figure with a nurse's hat. They'll draw a stick figure with scrubs. They'll draw a strict figure with a tool belt, right, manufacturing, um, they would struggle to draw that because, um, I think that you know what we see in terms of manufacturing. Is that what you described, guy in a hard hat? You know, um, sanding and filing wheels for a model T, right, exactly Like. You know, that's what I think of when I think of the assembly line.

And, um, you know manufacturing jobs. So, really, manufacturing, right, you know it's, it's uh's automated and it's getting more and more automated. So the manufacturing jobs are not necessarily I'm going to be on an assembly line. You know, putting bolt A right into hole number three I'm going to be controlling the automation system. I'm going to be controlling you know the robot I'm going to be programming. I'm going to be controlling the automation system. I'm going to be controlling. You know the robot I'm going to be programming. I'm going to be troubleshooting, right, and so a lot of that skill set that they want in manufacturing is really about troubleshooting and then, ultimately, critical thinking, right? So, in terms of messaging to young people, manufacturing is closer to you know, say what they like to do. Uh, in terms of working with technology, it's very like video games right.

Yeah, um, you know, and it's additive manufacturing, with 3d printing, automation, with you know um, many types of different machine machines that are, you know, forming, milling, uh, cutting things like that. So, um, manufacturing is high tech and you know, um, if you went to the Virginia manufacturers association, right, and you talked with them, they would tell you about how high tech manufacturing is. Um, and so, in terms of you know that we need to work more, everybody needs to work more to break the like, like I said, the idea that I'm going to be, you know, sanding spokes on a tire for a model T and I'm actually going to be working with a CNC mill. I'm going to be working with, uh, additive manufacturing, all right, or automated system that, uh, you know, uh, uh cuts the product or even like, packages the product. All of that's automated.

Now, you know, so, um, very, very high tech, um. So, like I said, we all need to work to kind of break that and educate ourselves and educate more people on, yeah, manufacturing is, uh is a growth area in the Commonwealth. Um, you know, the number one export in Virginia, I believe, is still microchips which are manufactured by Micron Right, and if you can get to uh, manassas and, uh, take a tour with Micron. I highly recommend it. Like you will see what manufacturing is is like in terms of the, the high tech area, uh, and it's, it's mind-blowing the first time you see it right. So, yeah, we all need to really kind of spread the word that you know manufacturing is high-tech. If you want a high-tech product, you're going to have high-tech manufacturing.

Right, let me. What do you think? What is your roughly your course offerings now, if you were to segment your stuff in trade, work, healthcare, manufacturing into segments, what do you think your current population is now? That sort of has a manufacturing flavor to?

it. Well, in the Commonwealth excuse me, not in the Commonwealth in Fairfax, you know, our manufacturing wing is not as large as I'd like it to be, um, and it really just comes down to, I think, uh, like I said, that exposure piece right.

Like you know, and when I drive to work, I see skyscrapers being built, okay, Um, but what I I don't see is, you know, the manufacturing that maybe happens in the area, um, and so we offer some online courses in manufacturing. Um, I'd love to offer more courses in manufacturing and adjacent skill sets that would help, like, let's say, machining and welding. We're currently building out a welding program and really comes back to finding the right instructor. Biggest barrier, uh, I have a facility where we can weld, um, but I need to find that instructor. So I'd like to build out more adjacent areas which would lend themselves to, you know, jobs in manufacturing.

Great. Thank you, Cartham.

Paul, do you work with any partners outside Northern Virginia, that area, and I'll give you that area and I'll give you. I happen to be on a community college foundation board, southside Virginia Community College, and for the past half dozen years we developed a power line training curriculum and classes. It's been hugely successful because Dominion Energy, the co-ops, many of the employees were aging out. I mean, when you have a weather event and your power lines go down, somebody has to go in there and fix those and put them back up and of course that takes training. So what was Fort Pickett? Southside Community College actually has a campus there and they have a training program and it's Brian made the point earlier. I've seen these graduations 200, 300 people show up for the Cedar and it's also women have actually gone through this program. I'm just wondering if that was a particular angle that you might be interested in learning more about and you may have some students that might be interested in taking that program or going through those classes.

Yes, all of those opportunities. I do think there's there's more and more young people that would be interested in them. Opportunities. I do think there's more and more young people that would be interested in them. And one of the things that we've really strived for is connecting with individuals and giving them a better understanding of all the opportunities I would love for well, I would love for every student to, like you know, come back to my program and really increase our enrollments, but I know that's not going to happen, um, but one of the things that that we've we do is we have an introductory class, um, for apprenticeship. We have an introductory class for health and medical. We call that apprenticeship one-on-one or health and medical one-on-one really creative names but they uh get young people in courses that are generally designed to last about two weeks Okay, they're very quick and they give young people a frame of reference around the profession and with that frame of reference, it then helps them choose what they're going to do next.

Okay, and and one of the things that I've found, um, is that if, if your father's a lawyer, there's a good chance you're going to be a lawyer. If your father's a plumber, there's a good chance you're you're going to be a plumber, right. My mother was a teacher. Guess what? I ended up being a teacher and so did my sister, right, um?

So giving young people a frame of reference around the trades, around health and medical, is very important, and so we offer that course. It's quick, gives them enough information so that they can make good choices about next steps in their education. Or they would be a good entry-level employee to start their health and medical career or start their apprenticeship employment, and with those courses we would share as many opportunities as possible. Obviously, you know, if you live in Fairfax and you want to go and really get a really good welding education, the shipyards, okay, newport News, they have some great opportunities down there, being a lineman or, you know, working in the energy field. Dominion Power has excellent opportunities on the job training. So programs like what you described at Fort Pickett, you know, I would highly recommend those to young people to really consider all the opportunities that are available to them. So giving young people that frame of reference and then, once they have it, they have some confidence, they understand it, they'd be more likely to take advantage of some of those awesome training opportunities that are provided in the Commonwealth.

This is my last question. We're going to wrap up and I'll give Carth and Raps a little last question. But before I ask the last question, I just want to thank you for what you're doing. I feel like that a lot of people talk about what we're doing. You go to work every day to try to make the world a better place and connect people with purpose, and so thank you for what you're doing.

Around 1980, we started seeing a decline in men attending college and I think it's sort of it's in the trough now. It's sort of bottomed out over a 40 to 50 year period and for a lot of years we just don't know where they went. I think that we assume they went into the trades, but we're not necessarily sure. When you look at gender and I guess you'd probably have to look at this because women seem to be overrepresented in health care, men probably overrepresented in the trades Do you see this new renaissance in the way we're thinking about trying to break down the blue collar barrier and everything being helpful in this idea of young men in particular trying to find purpose in life?

Yes, yes, um, you know, I I do think that breaking down the blue collar barrier uh is important, uh, to really give people an understanding of fulfilling careers and fulfilling professions, right, um, I can give you a lot of examples of of young men and young women that have gone through our programs. You know they are predominantly apprenticeship is predominantly male, but we do have more and more young women going through and getting their apprenticeship license Okay, or getting their trades license. And then in healthcare, we do have more and more young men going through and becoming, you know, certified EMTs, nurses or other things that are, you know, historically predominantly female. So there is more, uh, cross-pollination or mixing, okay, so we are working on that. But, um, one of the things that's particularly powerful is if you think about, uh, finishing your day, finishing your work day, and think about what you've done, um, or being able to physically see it All right, that's particularly powerful. You know, having taught construction carpentry, starting with a pile of lumber and some nails and then saying we actually completed, you know a roof truss, okay, and this roof truss is going to be part of a shed that we're building for, you know, storage at the school Okay, on a micro level then to a macro level where you might say you see that aircraft carrier I actually worked at Newport News and I helped build that aircraft carrier Right. Or you see a building off of 495 and you say you know what? Yep, I ran the wire for that building. That's particularly powerful, um, and that's something that that satisfaction, that feeling of having done that Right, uh, I don't know if, uh, we could teach that in a classroom.

I think that's something that's gotta be done out on the job site. It's got to be experiential. You know, um, in the health and medical field, you know say, you know a patient came in and I helped that patient and I send them here, you know, all patched up or I helped with that Right. Like I said, I think that's got to be experiential learning, um, and I think that's going to help us in terms of further breaking down the blue collar bias and getting more people into these, uh, into the these fields. Um, you know, I work in an office right now. Um, periodically, I have to go out and fill my bucket with something where it's like I, you know, seeing students in the classroom, seeing students being successful, um, but you know, if you're an electrician, a plumber or, if you're a, an EMT, you get that every single day. Right, you see it. You say this is what I did today. Right, my bucket's filled when I leave here.

Great answer, thank you, thank you.

Paul Uh, have you had any uh former students to come back to join your uh faculty and teach?

Yes, yes, we have Um and uh we, we, you know, I think everybody in the Commonwealth you know, with a program like mine they're trying to grow their own, bring more students back. Um and uh. We have had some students. We right now I have Mr Uh Riojas, brian Rio Riojas.

He was a student at Edison High School, went through their initial electrical program, finished his license, up with us in the adult program, started his own business and they've been operating for close to 10 years and now he's coming back and he's teaching for adult and community education in Fairfax and he's great because he really talks about the importance of getting the education behind the work that you do every day and then working your way towards licensure and achieving journey worker licensure and then master licensure. So he's really a champion of that because, uh, you know it's, it's benefited him uh, financially and I think you know I'll show all of the other good things that come with being in the trades Um, but yeah, he really espouses the virtues of uh, skilled trade and credentialing and licensure and so, uh, we and so we've had, you know, numerous students come back at different times depending on their availability to come back and give back to the young people that want to get into these career fields.

Paul, this has been terrific. Once again, thank you for what you're doing. You've got to get back to work, You've got a big job to do, and so you know we'd like to talk longer, but you've got to get to work and we've got to move on. So anything you'd like to add before we wrap up?

Well, I just want to thank you all for the opportunity today just to spread the word about these opportunities and these programs and you know, thank you for your time and I'd like to thank everybody and all the listeners for their time also and just consider the opportunities that you might want to share with a young person in your life or someone who's looking for a new career, and then also, if you're one of those people that has those professional skills, consider giving back and consider possibly coming to you can come to my program or any programs around the Commonwealth. They need people to really share their professional skills and pass it on to the next generation. So please consider that.

And how do people access your website or find you, or find you.

So we are migrating websites, but if you go to FCPSaceorg, that's going to be our new landing page, or you can also Google Fairfax County site, and then you can also ultimately find our courses in the catalog and enroll in courses if you're interested. Great, and yeah, we offer over 800 offerings in various formats.

One last question, carthen.

Well, just I have a friend I want you to meet who has a family business in Lynchburg. That I think would be a good connection for you. So I'll follow up with you on that. And again I just reiterate what Brian said we really have enjoyed having you with us on Virginia's Adventures today. It's been very interesting and enlightening. Brian wants me to enroll in your classes. He knows me well.

Don't take him.

I can't square a light bulb correctly, maybe in a how-to-work-a-computer for Luddites.

We take everybody Everybody's a lifelong learner with us. We, everybody's a lifelong learner with us, so we'd be happy to have you All right.

Thank you for listening today to the Virginians of Interest podcast. If you like what you heard today, please download and subscribe our podcast. All right, Paul, Thanks Now, this is great, buddy. Sorry we had to. We got off.

Thank you for listening to the Virginians of Interest podcast. To hear other episodes of this podcast, head to virginianso.