Speaker 2: 0:12

And now from the Blue Ridge PBS studios in Roanoke, virginia. It's the Virginians of Interest podcast, with your hosts Brian Campbell and Karthan Curran.

Speaker 1: 0:22

Thank you for joining the Virginians of Interest podcast. I'm going to turn it over to my co-host, Karthan Curran, for this introduction.

Speaker 3: 0:28

Thank you, Brian. I'm delighted to have, we're delighted to have with us today Simon Glossop, who's a native of the United Kingdom and recently now a citizen of the United States as well. I'll let him talk about that in a second. Simon is the founder and CEO of Data Company One, Incorporated. Simon welcome.

Speaker 4: 0:49

Thank you. Thank you very much for having me on the podcast.

Speaker 3: 0:52

We're delighted to have you. There are a lot of things to cover. I think for our audience it would be helpful to have a little of your early background, where you grew up in the United Kingdom and where you went to school and family and those kinds of things, and then we can talk about your path to come to the States and Virginia and then we can talk about your path to come to the States and Virginia.

Speaker 4: 1:12

Okay, thank you very much.

Speaker 4: 1:14

Well, I'm 53 years old. I was born and grew up in East Anglia in a small village called Flemton, which is just outside of Bury St Edmunds, which is in East Anglia, on the eastern side of the of England, part of the UK. Um, I, um. I went to private school. I went to I was lucky enough to go to a local private school, colford school. Um, and then, from the age of 16, I went to rugby school, um, which is in Warwickshire, where rugby, um as a sport was, uh, was started actually started on the close which is in Warwickshire where rugby as a sport was started actually started on the close, which is where they play rugby by William Webb Ellis 200 years ago. So I was lucky enough to go there and rugby is a very important part of my life.

Speaker 4: 2:02

And growing up in East Anglia and then going to school in rugby Warwickshire, I eventually went to university and I went to university in London to do a maths degree at Queen Mary in Westfield college, part of the University of London. I did a pure maths degree with economics and didn't really know what I wanted to do afterwards and ended up working in investment banking, which proved to be very lucrative for the 15 years I was involved in it. I was lucky enough to actually be involved in the more interesting and new parts of trading and investment banking. So I was involved in the start and formation of credit derivatives and helped define that a little bit in the 90s and that was a very good era to be involved in and working in investment banking. I managed to live in London.

Speaker 4: 3:09

I also managed to live six months in Tokyo and also five years actually in New York, and so I was a relatively young man living in New York working for Credit Suisse for a number of years, which is very good. I worked in investment banking for about 15 years, um, and I you know it was, it was enjoyable in places, definitely financially rewarding, but I I think you know it's um, I, I, I it's not it's not probably my ultimate calling um which kind of developed in the second part of my working career really, which is working in entrepreneurial activities. So I've been involved since leaving investment banking and either starting or advising or investing in new business internationally I'm sure we can come on to that. So that's really the last 10, 15 years of what I've been working on.

Speaker 3: 4:18

Well before we get to your current business that you're operating out of Richmond. I'm just curious to get your take on the differences, approaches and investment banking in the United Kingdom versus the United States.

Speaker 4: 4:39

It's very similar because it's a very I think it's a very. I mean, when I was involved in it it's a very homogeneous industry in terms of pretty much the same practices. Homogeneous industry in terms of pretty much the same practices. Working in investment banking in the 90s was more fun, I think, than from what I hear currently. Definitely there was a very freewheeling kind of attitude and, you know, can-do attitude and actually the American I would say the American part of investment banking had more of that atmosphere. So it was always great fun to actually come over and work in the US in investment banking because there was much more of a kind of can-do, freewheeling attitude.

Speaker 4: 5:21

And I worked at Credit Suisse and Credit Suisse had bought First Boston and definitely the First Boston trading floor in New York. There was much more of a. It was an exciting place. It was like how do we get these things done? And I think the difference now very much is that there's a lot of additional regulation, for good and bad reasons, and it's not quite as freewheeling and as fun as it used to be.

Speaker 1: 5:46

You're in Richmond now, so how did you end up in Richmond?

Speaker 4: 5:53

So I didn't expect to end up in richmond, um, um. I'm in richmond because, um, I got married to my, uh, my second wife, um carson, who's an artist, um, and we got married five years, um, four years ago, um and um, um. So so I emigrated over here and I'm now a Virginian native. My only experience with North America really was before was New York and then traveling from New York to other places like San Francisco and Atlanta and you know, et cetera, et cetera, all the financial hubs, so I hadn't really spent too much time in the South. So when I first came to Virginia and Richmond five years ago, it was a new experience to me. So, yeah, that's what happened.

Speaker 1: 6:40

What do you like about it? I mean, I presume other than your, I guess. Does your wife have roots in Richmond, or is that? Is it family?

Speaker 4: 6:48

so my wife is, uh, is is from, and her family are originally from Bedford, um, and so they're very much Virginian. They, they have, their family has a long history, um, and they're, they're right, they're, they're very much Anglophiles, so they have a long history which they can trace back from, you know, the, the first settlers coming into, into the country, and what, what do I like about virginia? Virginia is actually, you know, it is quite comfortable for someone from the uk, I would say, because I think the attitudes and, um, you know, civility is, is, is something it is is more similar I in the southern states, and especially in Virginia, than it would be perhaps in some northern states, and let's not get too political here but definitely I think we feel reasonably at home. I think people from the UK in Virginia and I find it a very friendly place. I'll give you one anecdote on this is that obviously and hopefully, I keep my English attitude, english accent, sorry, not attitude accent and you know very much.

Speaker 4: 8:04

When I lived in New York before, you know, it would be very quick for someone to say where are you from? You know very quick. Well, virginians in general are much more polite about that. So I think in the time I've been here, the movement to actually asking where I'm from actually is only people have only asked me, I think, probably only a couple of times, and so they're much more subtle in actually getting to. You know, obviously they realize my accent's different, but they're not. It's much more blunt in other places.

Speaker 1: 8:33

I've got one last question and Carleton may want to answer this, but I live in Richmond too, but I have not always lived in Richmond and I was reading is it correct that one of the original settlers looked down onto the James River for the Bluffs and and said this looks like Richmond in England. Is that?

Speaker 3: 8:47

correct. Yeah, the bend is very similar on the Thames.

Speaker 1: 8:53

And where is Richmond in England? Is it close to London?

Speaker 4: 8:58

It's in southwest London. It's effectively a suburb of southwest London now, but it's very attractive like little suburb in southwest London very close to Twickenham, and yes, I think that's very true in terms of similar attributes.

Speaker 3: 9:18

Yeah, carthen, simon. Well, tell us, just because you recently have become a US citizen and I think our listeners would be interested in that process and that journey for you, it was at the Virginia Museum of History and Culture where you actually swore your allegiance to the republic and you, of course, you can have and you do have dual citizenship with the UK. Do you want to talk to us about your decisions and decision in going and taking that path and becoming a US citizen?

Speaker 4: 9:51

Yeah. So I mean, firstly, the ceremony which was actually on the 4th of July. We had 95, I suppose call them applicants or new citizens 95 people from 46 countries. So it's pretty significant and interesting. I would say that it was a very moving and unique ceremony. It was very well done. It's, you know, and it was you know, everyone people were, you know, talking about the Constitution and what it means and how the constitution is evolving and developing. So I think it's worth just emphasizing that. I think that clearly, I've never been involved in a, you know, citizenship ceremony before, but I thought this was, and my American family also thought this was a very well conducted ceremony. This was a very well conducted ceremony.

Speaker 4: 10:52

It makes sense to. I live in, I live in, I live in Richmond. I, you know I spent. This is now my home, so it makes sense to be, you know, a citizen of of where you live.

Speaker 4: 11:06

And you know the application process to move from. I mean, clearly, my application process was enhanced to move from. I mean, clearly, my application process was enhanced because of marrying a U S citizen, um, so that may makes it slightly easier, but it's a very prolonged process where you have to you to to get citizenship. You know, they, they, they go through pretty much every detail which they should do, um, but they go through pretty much every detail of your, of your background. Know, it's quite an onerous process, um, but but ultimately you, you know, you get a green card and then, after a period of time of having a green card, if you're married to an american citizen, then you can apply for citizenship, and I would say that that I actually applied for it's a it's called the n400 um uh, citizenship application.

Speaker 4: 11:51

I actually applied in february this year and it's it was an incredibly expedited process and they, they went through it really quickly, um, probably because they couldn't ask any more questions, because all questions have been asked. So I doubt there's anything they could have additionally asked that they didn't already know. But you know it's been a very quick and efficient process. So, yeah, all good there. Really.

Speaker 1: 12:20

It's funny because I don't know you. Cartha knows you, but I'm meeting you for the first time today. But my relatives, I think, came over from Scotland a couple hundred years ago, down the James River, through Richmond and ended up in the Lynchburg area of Virginia. So we're all essentially immigrants. That's the great thing of this country. Do you still have family back in England, and how do you stay in touch with those folks?

Speaker 4: 12:42

Yeah, I actually have. My parents are both alive. They're still in my family house in in flampton and in suffolk, um, and so you know I, I, you know I, um, obviously stay in touch with them regularly, my that that they, my father's now 91 um um, so you know he's, he's, he's, he's getting quite old, um. I've got two daughters from my first marriage in the uk and I I go over and see them regularly, roughly every two months. They're coming over here for two weeks. They love coming over here. They come over here for two weeks in August. So, yes, I keep in touch, yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:22

Wonderful, simon, tell us about Data Company One. But data company one. I was delighted to come to your office recently and the presentation that was presented was really, I thought, amazing and intriguing. And I'm just really, as you know, we're going to try to have a meeting sometime next month to have some more follow-up conversation about your company and what you do. Can you explain to our audience kind of the….

Speaker 4: 13:53

Yeah, I'd love to. We're trying to create a sustainable and useful company and I'm using all of my experience. I'm the CEO and the founder of this company and I'm using all my experience and know how to build this company and I'm very happy to be building it here in richmond and on the east coast of the us. And you know, I, the data company one, was founded really for three reasons, and the first reason is that it's looking at exploiting an untapped piece of data which currently isn't being used, and that's this, this unmined piece of data around disposal and waste. So there's a lot of information and it's commercially attractive information if you can get it. So, firstly, there's this untapped piece of data which we're trying to mine. Secondly, it's a very critical time, a very interesting time to be involved in promoting recycling in the US.

Speaker 4: 15:03

The US is really at a very interesting juncture here and everyone sees that recycling can be important. But recycling needs promotion and needs help in the US. So people are recycling more and I to give you two reasons why it's interesting Aluminium cans they're very easy to recycle, but only 50% of those things are actually being recycled in the US. If that can be increased to 70%, then the US can save 6 million tons of CO2 annually just by making that change. So if we can help increase the amount of aluminium can recycling, it's significant. Also, if you recycle an aluminium, can you use 5% of the energy of creating that from new, from bauxite ore. So it's really interesting.

Speaker 4: 15:55

And then another something on a similar vein but very interesting Pizza boxes. Due to big confusion in north america, most people don't know that pizza boxes can be recycled and actually the fibers from the cardboard can be recycled seven times. It's really interesting. Most of those pizza boxes are only up in landfill and they don't need to. So it's it's a critical time to be involved in recycling in the US. It makes it very interesting. The third reason is around timing. But with the technology and also increased regulation and also heightened consumer interest in this, it's a really interesting time. There's a congruence of factors making the timing of being involved in this really interesting. So that's why congruence of factors making the timing of being involved in this really interesting. So that's why we created Data Company One and that's why I'm very happy that it's a very good time to have that company and you know we're trying to make it a big success.

Speaker 1: 16:54

How do you have so? How does having better data change behavior? I guess, because it just seems like to me the biggest obstacle is behavior, is getting people to do something they're not used to doing, and how does data influence that?

Speaker 4: 17:05

Absolutely Very good question. So it's very simple what gets measured gets managed, and when you can actually measure something and measure the impact or not, then you can actually make decisions in terms of how do you help influence behavior. You can't mandate behavior, you have to, you have to massage behavior, you have to convince behavior, you have to incentivize behavior, and so but only with the data in the first place to see what's actually happening. Can you actually have you know? The data is the starting point for actually changing behavior. So I think data is critical actually, and the more accurate the data, the better in actually incentivizing behavior.

Speaker 3: 17:53

Well, simon, can you, for the audience, explain what I saw, which, for example, let's just if I was at Scott Stadium in Charlottesville, big you know, 60,000 people, whatever how many people they can hold what I saw was this platform that I saw. You can, almost it will tell you what, then, to put this particular waste in that am I yes, so so what we're making, we're making recycling fun and gamifying it.

Speaker 4: 18:29

So and also using all this wonderful technology and you making this technology serve humans, so so so what we have is the, the kind of. The very visible part of this is we essentially have these stations, which are large monitors backed up with all this technology, but you walk up to it and you present whatever you want to throw away trash and it will tell you what it is and where to put it. And this is relevant because if you're confused in terms of actually how to recycle, it'll actually tell you which bin to put it in and what it is and why you should recycle and all this sort of stuff. It's like that's an aluminium can. It's 14 grams of aluminium sorry, I said I say aluminium in the english way, I apologize um, 14 grams of aluminium. And you know, put this in them, put this in this, in this receptacle, because you, because we're going to recycle it, it's an important thing to do.

Speaker 4: 19:24

And so then we have these stations which actually help educate and tell people what to do and how to do it. The technology is a slave here, but also, on top of that, we kind of gamify this by giving people points and rewards and have teams versus teams within a stadium. So at a stadium at UVA where we have UVA versus another team or something like that, then we can actually have recycling competitions and there can be rewards, and the net result is we get more recycling done, people get more engaged, they get help in terms of what to do and how to do it and more recycling happens. So that's a good thing.

Speaker 1: 20:07

Well, the gamifying thing is interesting to me and it's almost like if you can make anything a game, people, it's hard not to do it, you know.

Speaker 4: 20:15

Well, that comes back to your point on behavior. It's, you know, it's like well, you know, recycling can be a bit dry, right, it can be a bit of a dry topic, but you know, if we can actually help behavior by making it a bit more, bit more fun, um then then it's going to help everyone really and also, just, you know, at the same time, you know, we can show that it's worthwhile and all that sort of stuff. So I think, yeah, gamification and making it a bit more entertaining is actually one of the ways forward, especially in the North American market.

Speaker 3: 20:45

And so because there's, if I'm not mistaken, at least in the US recycling there's a lot of inefficiencies, isn't there?

Speaker 4: 20:54

Yeah, it's obviously such a huge landmass with so many people and so many things happening. It's a big organizational issue. But you know, instead of being kind of confused by that and worried, you know, you, that instead of the stuff ending up in landfill is actually getting recycled and reused. That's more efficient and it's better for the, for the, for the us market ultimately, and it's better for the us consumers. You know we can come back to. We can come back to to aluminium again, because you know what's actually effectively happening. There is the, the, the, the raw product, aluminium is actually coming from overseas effectively, or you know, and and it's being turned into aluminium in gots to actually then be used. So if you can recycle more internally in north america, then you don't need to go so much to the external market to get the, the raw product, because you can, you know you can actually reuse the aluminium content more.

Speaker 3: 22:03

It's more efficient. What countries can we look to that are doing a much better job than we are?

Speaker 4: 22:17

Europe is generally doing a better job, has got probably a slightly better educated citizens in terms of understanding the importance of recycling and sometimes incentives around recycling. So I think Europe's generally got better recycling rates. How about the Canadians? I actually don't actually have Canadian figures to hand, but I would imagine probably the Canadians are on a par with the US.

Speaker 1: 22:53

It isn't part of the problem. I haven't thought about this until we think about it now, but I do realize that waste is a dirty little secret. In other words, it's just really hard to manage, right. I mean, once you put it in a landfill. I drive by landfills and I see these pipes sticking out because of the methane coming out. You know just the idea that it's really just not good for our environment to put a bunch of garbage and bury it and then stick pipes out of the ground. So, as part of that, also helping people understand why this is in our best interest, without sounding preachy and without sounding like a big brother forcing somebody to do something.

Speaker 4: 23:29

Recycling and better use of trash is a politically agnostic topic, Because you only need to take people to the full landfill sites on the East Coast to show that you know this really isn't such a great idea. You know, let's try and get less stuff actually into the ground there and try and reuse it a little bit more. You know, regardless of almost how you feel about climate change, actually you know this is just a smarter thing to do. So we, we need to make sure that trash is managed in a more effective way and we we you know this is the american way right is actually to make it commercially more efficient. You know it's like okay, there's all this waste. Let's actually make sure that, commercially, we're reusing this stuff where it makes sense and let's make sure the incentives are in place because then less of this stuff actually ends up in landfill.

Speaker 4: 24:25

We don't then have to look at landfill. You know it's just. You know it's. It's not a I don't think it's a divisive topic because it's hard to say that. I think it's hard to come across people that will say recycling is a really stupid idea. People will say they're confused about recycling and they don't know what to recycle. But actually it's hard to argue with recycling itself.

Speaker 1: 24:48

I have one last follow-up question on this, on recycling. How do you go from credit derivatives and investment banking to recycling?

Speaker 4: 24:59

By being involved in interesting topics. I've always found that I'm quite a quick learner on new topics and I have a very entrepreneurial mindset in terms of looking at things, and credit derivatives were the hot topic at the time in investment banking and very few people understood them. I found that I could understand what was going on and I think most of the things I've been involved in it's been something relatively new and perhaps a little bit challenging, and that's definitely the case in terms of what we're doing At Data Company One. We're promoting something Not recycling is new, but the way we're going about trying to solve it and what we're promoting is relatively new. So I think that's the link really.

Speaker 3: 25:52

And to that point, where are you right now in the development stage, of getting what you do out there to be visible to decision makers that would want to utilize this technology?

Speaker 4: 26:09

So we've been going for about one and three quarter years. We have got a very good team here in Richmond. We have eight full-time staff. Our target audience actually at the moment is East Coast universities and specifically Virginia University's campus and sports events, and so we're lucky enough to be working with a lot of those entities to actually see how we can incorporate our technology into their events, and those are really, really, really good conversations. What's fantastic is universities are really embracing sustainability. It's very important to them. The demographics in terms of people, the age group attending universities it's really important to them. It's really important that sustainability is taken seriously and you know recycling is part of that, and so we're lucky enough to be involved in that space. So we are in customer discovery and active customer discussions in really getting our products out the door and, of course, we hope to make progress with you, cartham and Ferrum, and of course, we hope to make progress with you.

Speaker 3: 27:28

Cartham and Ferrum yeah, exactly, I was going to say Ferrum is on the target list to be one of those colleges that would embrace this, and to me I'm a huge what I saw was just, it was wonderful.

Speaker 1: 27:44

Well, it sounds like it's problem-solving. I've worked at universities for 30 years and I've done a lot of entrepreneurship programs and people try to say the best type of entrepreneurship is identifying a problem and coming up with a solution. And it just sounds like to me. That's because I agree with you that this is something I've been aware of for 20 years, but I still struggle with what do I put in what bin? And then it's only a split-second decision and then you just go to hell with it.

Speaker 1: 28:08

I'll just put it in the trash yeah, exactly Right.

Speaker 4: 28:09

Exactly.

Speaker 3: 28:10

And there's just these terrible inefficiencies Even things that you think are going to be recycled, they end up in the landfill in that way.

Speaker 1: 28:19

Well, I've got a question for you. You said something earlier. We all are informed by events of our youth and childhood. It sounds like to me rugby was a big deal in your life which, in our view, our listeners can't see. You, you're a relatively handsome guy. You don't look like you've been beat up that much, but I presume you probably have. I guess you had your nose broken, but how did that influence your life, particularly in investment banking, in this entrepreneurial spirit, or did it? But it sounds like it was a big part of your life. And who's your favorite team?

Speaker 4: 28:51

So actually my nose never got broken, which is, you know, I was lucky enough to be really playing properly. When you know, the players were not the size they are now. They're very big men now and you know I'm 6'1" but you know I'd be considered quite short to be playing rugby now. Um, the um, I, I think rugby as a sport is, is is incredibly interesting. I, you know I'm going to say something, but but the for me, a rugby team, there's always been a place for everyone. There's a, there's a, there's a. There's a place for the slightly larger guy. There's a place for the slightly larger guy. There's a place for the much taller guy, the fast guy, the thin guy. You know, there's a place for everyone in a rugby team. It's, you know, it's a very inclusive, it's very inclusive and you know there's also the kind of.

Speaker 4: 29:42

The old adage is that, you know, soccer or football is, you know, is a gentleman's game played by thugs, and rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen, and that's very true. You know, I've always said that. Yeah, it's always been important to me, you know. You know, growing up and now I'm the I'm lucky enough to be the chairman of the local Richmond rugby foundation, which, try, is a nonprofit that promotes rugby in and around the Richmond area. Um, we're lucky enough to have our own field near near the airport. Um, which which you know some old boys you know did amazing work to actually finance, you know did amazing work to actually finance in the 80s and 90s, and so it's a sport that I've always been involved in. I was very glad to go to rugby school and get the history from that.

Speaker 1: 30:38

How does it influence the investment banking and entrepreneurship? Is it a competitive thing? Are you still kind of a competitive guy, or is it just teamwork? Or what is it you think you're bringing from rugby to your business acumen?

Speaker 4: 30:52

I'm not sure there's much crossover really. It's just something I always enjoyed, so I don't think there's a huge amount of crossover. I get upset a little bit now because of my age. I would love to be playing, but I'm just. You know the ship has sailed my body's not interested.

Speaker 4: 31:15

I the last time I I played properly was I was actually playing for merrill lynch and merrill lynch in london. We had a, we actually had a side and we won the. We won the um, we won the city financial cup in london. I think this is about 2000. Um, that's the last time I really really played properly, so it's quite a while ago. Um, but this very there's very strong rugby is actually very strong in in virginia. Um, it's um. There are a lot of sides, a lot of the lot of colleges have good sides there. There are a lot of good clubs, so it's surprisingly strong. You know, it's pretty strong here and that's men and women, and I'm always very proud I'm going to. In Richmond itself we actually have a wheelchair rugby side as well, which is amazing. So it's fantastic.

Speaker 1: 32:03

How would I find out about that? Do you have a website?

Speaker 4: 32:06

I mean, if I wanted to go, yeah, richmond Rugby Foundation so it's richmondrugbyfoundationcom and you've got a lot of the links there in terms of you know finding out all the local stuff in terms of who's playing and you know what's going on. So I would actually recommend that.

Speaker 1: 32:23

Great.

Speaker 3: 32:23

Karthik. So I'm shifting gears a little bit Since living here in Virginia in the US. I'm just curious what the British elections that have just taken place, your thoughts on the comparisons of the British political system and our political system Any thoughts on that? We could probably spend quite a long time on this, but I didn't ask you are you a Tory or are you Labour or something in?

Speaker 4: 32:52

between. I'm a liberal conservative. I believe very strongly in true conservative values, which I'm not really sure are reflected anywhere in the G7 at the moment, and I think we probably want to stay off that topic a little bit. But what was good about the UK elections is it was a snap election, so they were called and they have the election process within a couple of months, which was wonderful. So it was done and dusted in a couple of months and, of course, the US could really benefit from that happening here, because this whole year-long process is a long time and it's just so distracting.

Speaker 4: 33:35

I think there's lots of different mandates going on the Conservatives in the UK, the Tories in the UK. They had to deal with a lot of things, which is, they had to deal with Brexit, they had to deal with COVID and they proved themselves to be unpopular. So we have have now a big labor government, a labor landslide, which they probably deserve, and we'll see if they can fix. You know, fix things, improve things. I think that I've said this to other people. I think in some ways, the two systems are meaning the US and the UK systems are obviously incredibly similar and obviously very different. There are some benefits and advantages of both systems. I just think the length of the process in the US is a bit much. It's taking too long.

Speaker 3: 34:35

Interesting observation. I'm just curious, Simon, were you pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit?

Speaker 4: 34:45

I was actually pro-Brexit. Um, I was actually pro-brexit, but either decision would have. I would have agreed with either decision if it had been embraced fully. We have a situation in the uk where neither decision has actually neither position has been embraced fully, correct, so? So so you had a, you had a marginal win for pro-brexit and clearly, brexit then happened, but because, effectively, it was a split vote, you had a lot of people who were very unhappy with the decision, and so, instead of everyone, or the majority of people, getting on board for making Brexit a success, you have a lot of detractors from the start really trying to show that it wasn't a success and that really hasn't helped. You know, and that's still ongoing now and it's still an open wound, and the EU has, the European Union has a lot of problems. Um, at the moment, and you know, despite those problems, people still, a lot of people would still like to see the uk rejoin the eu, which would be a very convoluted process. Um, so you know, it's.

Speaker 3: 36:03

It's what yeah, I was gonna say I guess that when you're saying it wasn't totally embraced, are you referring to the northern irish situation? Is that part of that equation?

Speaker 4: 36:15

no, I think I think that was one particular aspect which was used as an excuse to actually to complain about, actually, how it's practically going to work, um, and I think that was used very much as an excuse in the latter stages. No, I'm just more really talking about you know, we need a way of decision making and the way we have a decision making is democracy. And you know, once democracy has had its voice, then in general you know we need people, really need to either get on board, because otherwise it's it creates a situation where you know you can't success, you're not going to have ultimate success, because there's always going to be detractors from things.

Speaker 1: 37:06

I'll switch gears a little bit, still related to your background but history. I'm from the eastern part of Virginia around Williamsburg and having grown up down there, it's hard not to realize that the impact of the crown is so much tied to the history of all of Virginia, but particularly eastern Virginia. We had our disagreement 250 years ago but we got beyond that pretty quickly and we've been close allies ever since. Have you gotten a chance to really get out and go down into the eastern part of the state where the first colony was created? And the impact of the crown at places like the College of William and Mary are still very obvious and sort of you know? Get a chance to really absorb that as an Englander. As an Englander, no, I haven't.

Speaker 4: 37:47

I haven't had enough of a chance and you know it's always a challenge to work out. You know, with the limited time you have, where you want to go and what you want to see. But you know I am interested. I'm a big fan of history.

Speaker 1: 38:02

I would encourage you to do it just simply because I am. It's funny it's like a family disagreement, right that we had to have our disagreement for us all to go into our respective paths. But having said that, man, did we ever really come together as good friends over the years, right? I mean, there is no closer relationship, I think, between the former colonies and the mothership, right?

Speaker 3: 38:25

Well, virginia is probably the most anglophile state. Well, you are, I most anglophile state Well, you are.

Speaker 1: 38:30

I mean, I think that's probably why Carthage and you hit it off. I feel sometimes like Carthage needs to go to London and live for a while, because he's constantly reminding me of British tradition and there's not a day that goes by maybe an hour that he doesn't talk about Winston Churchill. So I mean, I think. But our histories are intertwined. Even my history, which was pre-Revolutionary War, and Virginia's history is very intertwined. So I know love was your reason, which is the reason so many people choose to live somewhere that's not their native area.

Speaker 4: 39:03

But I do feel like this will, I think, feel like home and probably already does feel like home.

Speaker 1: 39:23

Yeah, it does. I also feel that America has we want to try and stay away from politics of the reason our economy just blows everything else out of the water is it's free market, it's innovation, it's all the things that sort of, and capital, access to capital, that just doesn't exist, even in democracies. It just doesn't. The environment is just not quite like it is in the United States.

Speaker 4: 39:45

Yeah, I think there's still a tremendous opportunity going forward. A lot of detractors internally in North America, but I think there's a huge, very good opportunity for America to lead, to continue leading going forward. I really think there's that opportunity forward. I really think there's. There's that opportunity, you know, and I think it, and hopefully that can be embraced. And I you know it's very upsetting to actually have people talking, you know, talking the country down in places, because I think very often they don't realize that, what the alternative is and and and what they're, what they're, what they're, you know what they're detracting from and what they're talking about. These opportunities that America has do not exist elsewhere in the world and I think it's important to embrace those opportunities and actually do something with it. North America is still in a situation where it's evolving and it can continue to evolve and improve, and I think that's important.

Speaker 1: 40:55

Great, carthen. We're going to wrap up here, but, carthen, do you have any final questions?

Speaker 3: 40:58

Well, I'm ready to go to London. Well, other than that I mean.

Speaker 1: 41:02

I think he wants to junk it to London, if that can be arranged, Anything else no.

Speaker 3: 41:06

Simon, thank you so much. We look forward to having you back on as time goes by to get some updates on where things are going, and we really appreciate you taking time to be with us today.

Speaker 4: 41:20

Yeah, no, thank you very much. Thank you for inviting me on. It's been really interesting and I'm glad to be able to talk about a few things about the company and about why I'm here and what we're doing and why we're doing it. So I do appreciate that.

Speaker 3: 41:34

Well, I'm a huge fan of what you're doing and I look forward to getting that meeting set up next month with our friends from Ferrum and where I can help you with other institutions in Virginia.

Speaker 1: 41:46

I'd say the same thing, simon. I didn't think about this until you were describing being sworn in as a. You are our newest Virginian. Essentially, we've been doing this for a while and usually we talk to really old Virginians, but you're a brand spanking new, shiny Virginian. That's right, yeah, and so it's so great to hear your story and to sort of be reminded of that experience that you just described. It gave me goosebumps to think about you being there on the 4th of July and, you know, taking the oath and having to go through all the rigorous stuff which most I probably may not even be able to pass. You were committed to the mission here and I thank you for that.

Speaker 4: 42:25

Yeah, I will leave you with one last thing. The officer actually at the you know immigration center did have to test my English. He had to test my you know comprehensive you know ability to understand and write English, so that was challenging.

Speaker 1: 42:43

Well, I will do one bit of translating for those of you. He was saying aluminum earlier, which is we call it aluminum and how did you say it again? Aluminium? Obviously, aluminium, aluminium, that's correct. But I knew that from knowing other British people. That's the key word for a lot of people aluminum versus aluminium. So Carlton will give a class on that later. Okay, thank you, simon. Thanks, simon. Thank you for joining us today on the Virginians of Interest podcast. If you like what you heard, please like and subscribe to our podcast.

Speaker 2: 43:11

Thank you for listening to the Virginians of Interest podcast. No-transcript.