Announcer: 0:12

And now from the Blue Ridge PBS Studios in Roanoke, Virginia. It's the Virginians of Interest Podcast, with your hosts Brian Campbell and Carthan Curran.

Brian Campbell: 0:22

Thank you for joining us today for the Virginians of Interest Podcast. My name is Brian Campbell, I'm here with my friend, Carthan Currin, and today we're particularly excited to have a great special guest the mayor of Petersburg, the honorable Sam Parham. I'm going to turn it over to Carthan, who's known Sam for quite some time, to get us started.

Carthan Currin: 0:37

Thank you, Brian. Sam, Welcome, Mr Mayor, we really appreciate you, thank you for having me. It's so good to have you on today, Sam, for our audience. Can you give us some history about your background?

Brian Campbell: 0:51

Yeah, you can go with some.

Carthan Currin: 0:54

Also. In addition to that, I wanted you to kind of give our audience some of the reasons why you have been a public servant for some of the years.

Sam Parham: 1:06

Okay, wonderful, wonderful Just to let everybody know.

Sam Parham: 1:09

I know I have some. Sometimes people ask where did this guy, Sam Parham, come from? Anyway, like I, was born and raised in the city of Petersburg, my mom and dad met here. My mom was at Virginia State, my dad was working at a place called Noly Brothers Bakery. I don't know if you remember that car thing, but Noly Brothers was on Washington Street and they ended up getting married and buying their first house in Petersburg. Back then my dad was from Down in Stony Creek, from Sussex County. Petersburg in those 70s was the land of opportunity. Everybody in my dad's family, all my uncles and aunts, were saying well, we're getting off this farm life and coming to Petersburg to get a good job and get a new life. Got tired of working hard with tobacco and peanuts. I was born in 75 here in Petersburg and went to school here. Graduated from Petersburg High School, class of 93. Class of 93,. We celebrated our 30-year reunion here in a couple months.

Sam Parham: 2:19

Went to Richard Blaine College, Got my associates from there, then went on to my VCU. During my time at VCU the cost of rooming board was through the roof. While I was at VCU I bought my first house here in Petersburg, carving for $44,000. Bought a Cape Cod in Walnut Hill for $44,000. In college I had my college living my college life and I was wondering if everybody else was at the dorms. The place to come was the Petersburg, because Sam was in college and had a house here and people couldn't understand how in the world could he buy a house and be a college at VCU? Why? Because Petersburg has always been a great, affordable place to live. So when you talk about affordable housing and things of that nature, I had it back when I was in college, so I always dreamed of being on City Council. Here is something that always was appreciative of the life that Petersburg gave me. When you look at the fact that my mom toward school here for over 30-plus years my dad worked here said the best job of his life was at Noly Brothers Bakery.

Sam Parham: 3:34

When so much of things changed, as we're saying, in those late 80s I can't remember when we had brown and wholesome tobacco here and sewer luggage here and we had a strong manufacturing base and all of that began to close and move out the area Someone overseas, someone to other states and it really started a decline of job opportunities here in the city. So when you look at the city of Petersburg. A lot of people don't understand on how we got to where we are. Back in 2016, when everything here rocked bottom, it was because we had very few investment in a steady influx of people coming to Petersburg and looking for opportunities when a ton of those had dried up and nothing really came in to supplement that huge void that brown and wholesome tobacco left.

Sam Parham: 4:29

You got to realize one out of every three families back then had some association with brown and wholesome tobacco back in those 80s. So when you look at having that huge amount of loss, it was like a suction cup of revenue to just got pulled out of the city and we lost a lot of our middle class because back then we had a strong working middle class here in Petersburg and it's something that has really taken us really over 30-plus years to recover from that and I'm just thankful to be part of what is the upswing right now of Petersburg of bringing jobs back here, and Carthen knows one of the big ones was getting Ampact low in Sivakha here, in which I'm excited to be part of the exciting run of bringing manufacturing back to the city of Petersburg, which is really the core of what the city of Petersburg has always been, since the founding of the city.

Brian Campbell: 5:38

I'm going to Carthen invited me to lunch in Petersburg four years ago or something like that, and I'm a Virginia native. I've lived mostly in Eastern Virginia, north Central Virginia, lived in Charlottesville. I'd never been to Petersburg before unless I was a child and I immediately started thinking.

Brian Campbell: 5:52

I said what a cool city. It just looked like it had so much history there and everything else. That was. One of my questions was it seems like I was struck by both its revolutionary war history and its civil war history. So between you and Carthen, I think you can fill in the blanks for me about why it's you could use a lot for movie sets now, right, I mean because everything in Petersburg is kind of historic. So why is it that? Tell me a little bit more about the history of Petersburg and why is it that it's not top of mind to people like it should have been for me?

Sam Parham: 6:23

I think the biggest thing is having being able to connect the dots when you have such a broad history like we have in the city of Petersburg and it was never really packaged up to really market the city. Because when you have a revolutionary war history here that started here civil war history and the city of Petersburg was a huge part of the civil rights movement here, which Dr King was here so many times with Wyatt T Walker, who was really his chief of staff Doing that time, and he was the pastor at Guilfield Baptist Church and he was one of the ones that helped integrate our Petersburg public library. So what we have is it's been so vast and so spread out. But one of the challenges has been in us being such a small city. Really having the resources to tell the whole story of the relevance of the city of Petersburg has really been a challenge and that's something that we've been working on.

Sam Parham: 7:31

I've started with Carlin being here. We still are trying to fix up a lot of our older historic structures. So, like I said, brian, back when revenue dipped here and you have an older city, it takes a ton of resources to turn over a city. We've never really had that type of support necessary to bring back a lot of our historic structures, like when Carlin was here as economic development director, we started on that whole Southside Depot renovation, which is still underway now. So you've got to realize, when Carlin was underway and it wasn't completed, didn't have enough funding, fell into some resources with opera, so we just put another $2 million into bringing Southside Depot on line, which is the second old Israel station in the nation, which is right here and was a huge part of the Civil War.

Sam Parham: 8:28

If you know, I tell people Richmond only failed because of once Petersburg fell in the siege. That was really the end of the Civil War, because we were that pipeline to Richmond and that's really what Petersburg has become now. We really fall right back into being that pipeline of resources to the largest city of Richmond. So I'd card and go in and jump into some of that as well.

Brian Campbell: 8:55

Well, I'm gonna ask questions specifically because before we came on the air today so I'm not a military historian but I'm sort of fascinated by it that I realized the siege of Petersburg I think it went on for about 11 months, is that correct? It went on for almost a year, almost a year, yeah, and it said it's one of the longest the sieges in military history. It may not be the longest, but it's in the top five. So I thought how did I not know this? I'm a Virginia guy and I sort of became fascinated by the history that people just miss as they're driving up and down 95.

Carthan Currin: 9:21

I think Carthage when I collaborate on that Part of the issues are from Hampton Road so we'll excuse.

Brian Campbell: 9:25

Oh well, that's part of the problem. We think the world revolves around the Eastern Virginia.

Carthan Currin: 9:28

That's right, that's right, A lot of things happen up to Jamestown. Let me just share that with you. Well, part of the Civil War connection to that depot that the mayor mentioned, if I'm not mistaken, Petersburg had five railroads. Wow, yes, so it was a hub. It was a hub for troops, munitions supplies. It was a critical strategic place that the Union Army, as the mayor indicated, once Petersburg fell.

Brian Campbell: 10:01

Well, and also don't know me, as I was driving down there one day, crossing the Appomattox River, that. So then, once it fell, I guess everybody headed west, correct? And then ultimately ended up in Appomattox where there weren't right, Correct, correct. We're not a history show, but I found that fascinating that this was a part of things. That was pretty obvious, that was in plain sight, but I still I missed it.

Carthan Currin: 10:19

Well, there's a famous I can't remember the exact quote, but Robert E Lee communicated with Jefferson Davis that when Petersburg fell, that it was absolutely necessary to evacuate Richmond.

Brian Campbell: 10:29

Yeah, then the Dominoes began to fell, just as mayor Sam was saying. The game was over at that point.

Carthan Currin: 10:34

But also Petersburg has its history goes way back to even pre-revolutionary war. The British occupied Petersburg for a while during the Revolutionary War. In fact, the mayor and I had been on a board of directors for Battersea, which is an historic home excuse me in Petersburg that's been renovated and it was occupied by the British Army and later the Union Army. There's a lot of history in Petersburg, a lot of manufacturing history.

Brian Campbell: 11:10

Well, that was everything I saw. When I saw that Brian and Williamson physical plant I thought, my God, that was a big facility and when it ended, didn't it end sort of abruptly? I mean, it just sort of went to work one day and it just sort of stopped right.

Sam Parham: 11:23

Exactly, and that's what happened. They ended up moving to Macon, georgia, and some people left the city and moved down to Macon and others was just left here. It was just a abrupt hey, we're moving, we're closing. It was a lot going on and I think Carthage can get into. I wasn't around during that time to really get the real reason why they left.

Sam Parham: 11:48

All right and the conspiracies that I've had, carthage and I've heard one was behind the whole ordeal of Gale Field Baptist Church. At one point in time they wanted to move Gale Field and build them another church in order to expand the plant and some reason the city said no and the church members back then were strong and it was like we're not giving up our church and which led to them saying look well, if we can't expand here, we're gonna leave. Now number two, something I just found out the last few years from a gentleman whose mother worked there and he is sad that they blamed the church, but they said it was really the unions had said at the time back in the 80s $35 an hour is not enough. Do you hear me?

Brian Campbell: 12:39

Wow in the 80s.

Sam Parham: 12:41

Yes, in the 80s. So then you know what people were making there. And from people that was working there, they were saying that they told me that the blame was really on the church, but the real reason was the unions was asking for so much that they decided to pull out and leave. So, calvin, give me your take on it. That was a few years old then. I was a kid when that happened.

Carthan Currin: 13:05

So Well, I think the first what I've heard, also as a church, was the prime reason. I've not heard the hourly rate being the issue, but whatever the issue was, tragically the city hit the big gift horse in the mouth. I mean thousands and thousands of jobs just went away, and it's not that big of a city.

Brian Campbell: 13:29

So to have that be the center of your universe and to have it stop one day. Really. Was it made sense to me, then, why Petersburg has struggled since? I mean, if you take a punch like that to the gut, it takes a while to get over it.

Carthan Currin: 13:40

Well, the mayor mentioned sewage luggage, tetanus optimum. There was a lot of manufacturing, a lot of commerce in Petersburg, which it's been its historic background, but especially after Brandon Williamson left, that was a real hit in the gut. But we're coming back, as the mayor indicated. That's a good segue.

Brian Campbell: 14:04

So we've gone over the history here, but the need for the Renaissance? Why is it, the mayor, that you think, over the years, as Richmond has had a couple of ups and downs cycles since then that Petersburg was on the sort of downward spiral and never really saw another up until recently? So what was it? Was it just because of that one decision that just made it something that it took 40 years to get over?

Sam Parham: 14:27

I got from being in an elected office, I wouldn't be able to answer this question unless I would have experienced it and me being an outsider and coming in Brian, you realize that by us being such a small city, what we've been faced with is it's been such a heavy load that local government cannot turn this all right. And I really learned that the city is a corporation of the Commonwealth and for so long I don't think it's been a priority of the Commonwealth to steer resources to the city of Petersburg, compared to what we have now with our relationship with Governor Yonkin, who definitely does everything as power to steer resources to Petersburg through the partnership. But when you look at what we deal with, with the amount of high poverty that we have we've always had the high unemployment and when throughout the city most of our departments are led by one or two person shops, and when Carleton was here as economic development director, how can you put it on one person to turn a city to has the amount of challenges that we have? So really we fell so far down with so many of these huge issues. Brian, from the bad health outcomes we had, that something that was really challenging that people don't talk about really was really the.

Sam Parham: 15:57

The war on drugs was going on the same time when manufacturing left and that crack cocaine epidemic came and decimated most of our neighborhoods, our family structures. People lost everything they had and then have job opportunities and the drug thing here was really the first epidemic. They talked about the opioid epidemic. Now in this country, back then in Petersburg, when you launched a manufacturing and get compounded by this crack cocaine epidemic that I saw during my time here, it really crushed a lot of families, a lot of neighborhoods went down. And when you compound all of that and then in the Nannies, we lost a lot of our retail. So when South Park Mall opened in Colonial Heights, that was the end of Walnut Hill Mall and a lot of our retail on Crater Road all left and went to Colonial Heights. So you guys think that was the Nannies, brian.

Brian Campbell: 16:56

Yeah.

Sam Parham: 16:57

Then. And then you come to where we are now and decide the 2000s and not having that type of political pull when we lost big tobacco. What the state did was they said, well, we're gonna create the Tobacco Commission and to help localities that were growing tobacco, and Petersburg got left out of that equation.

Brian Campbell: 17:19

So therefore, I found it hard to believe, but I know they're not in the footprint, so here it is.

Sam Parham: 17:23

Yeah, we're not in the footprint. So you gotta realize, politically we had been left out of the equation for so long and, knowing that this city was heavily dependent on tobacco, you didn't get the tobacco industry money, you got this huge drug epidemic that hit in the 80s. You lose all your manufacturing. So you gotta realize that's about three decades of downturn and for the most part that's by us being a little city. We don't have the political pull like the Northern Virginians, the Tide Waters of the world, not even the rich ones. So it was so easy to just say, all right, we'll leave that part of Virginia out and right now that your dollars we're gonna dump into the next Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel or Trafford improvements in Northern Virginia. That was booming, it wasn't a priority of on the Commonwealth. So and looking at this from being from sitting here in this seat you gotta have a strong partner on that state level because what Virginia economic development do for us as far as keeping us in the equation, to send us leads here on businesses that interested in coming to Petersburg? It's been a huge shift now into knowing that the city can survive without having manufacturing, without having a strong revenue stream to sustain itself. We can't. They ended annexation Remember that, carthen? They ended annexation in the 70s. So guess what? We can't grow anymore.

Sam Parham: 18:55

And then the Commonwealth of Virginia. We have these independent cities and we have a smaller landmass, smaller resources. The biggest list of challenges are in our smaller urban cities. And when you look at all of that, brian, people from outside of Virginia think that, yeah, what county is Petersburg? And are you in Chesterfield or you in Prince George and then Winnie County? No, we are an independent city.

Sam Parham: 19:25

So you've seen, I think the shift of the Commonwealth in those early 2000s, late 90s, was in the suburban counties. You saw the counties, the Chesterfields, the Heracles explode. And now they were just saying, okay, we got to do something with the smaller urban cities like Petersburg. Because, if not, I think back in 2016, when we had the economic downturn and when they realized that if we were going to go bankrupt as a city, we were going to affect the Commonwealth of Virginia's bar rating as well, they had a tripway rating, but they weren't gonna be able to maintain the tripway rating of the city of Petersburg tank. So what in Maryland in 2016, they say, all right, well, we got to do something about this thing here in Petersburg that we've been basically shoving to the side for so many years. We didn't know they have this type of impact on us.

Sam Parham: 20:21

We better help those guys out down here and, thanks to having Governor Yonkin in partnership with Petersburg, there's been a huge transition because what he does it gives us a lot more political muscle and a lot more resources to help turn around a city that had been spiraling downward for three decades.

Brian Campbell: 20:42

Well, let me ask you a quick follow up to that and then we can move on to some other things. But I was a little surprised, you're right. So Governor Yonkin becomes governor, and not only his partnership for Petersburg, but the way I understand it and you can help me understand it. I mean he gets reported on it every week or whenever they have cabinet meetings. I mean it's not just a second or third to your priority, it is one of his top priorities.

Brian Campbell: 21:03

How does just be honest. How does a Republican governor with his background decide that Petersburg was just gonna be the place where he was gonna stick a flag on the ground and say we're not gonna tolerate this anymore. We're gonna do something about it? There's gotta be a story behind that, isn't it?

Sam Parham: 21:17

Yeah, I mean, it's a huge story behind it and I think it began with the Democratic primary for governor when we had Jennifer Carol Foy, who is a Petersburg high graduate. We had Senator McClellan, who was born right outside of Petersburg, was born in Petersburg hospital and always came to Petersburg to shop and get her hair done and all those things. She's a Petersburg girl as well. So it really turned into a conversation of hey, terry, your four years were so good, but what about these girls in Petersburg? That said, what have you done for Petersburg lately? Okay, and it really turned into a rally cry of how can you let a city like the city of Petersburg, who has been dealing with huge numbers of blight and property issues and growing up with Carol Foy and Jennifer McClellan we saw this city really decline like that and going into this, everybody questioned, hey, why should we go backwards when we know what happened in Petersburg? And that was myself.

Sam Parham: 22:38

The Washington Post did a story on who is this guy in Petersburg that didn't sign on to support Terry McCullough, because you know I was supporting Jennifer Carrefour at the time and they really they did a story on the city of Petersburg and they explained the challenges and we had some issues down here and reached out to Governor Yonkin and he came to Petersburg. We welcome you here and just let them know what the city of Petersburg is. We are very welcome in the city. We're not hooked on this whole thing of who's D or who's R that. We all about getting things done here and we had some challenges with we had a few shootings that was going on at the time and we asked the governor for help and he said look, let's see if we can do some things together down here in Petersburg to help turn things around here. And we got together, we clicked and people understand that we were raised. They come from two different sides but our core values of serving people is what it's all about.

Sam Parham: 23:55

And the Yonkins are very, very good folks. Him and the First Lady have big hearts and they understand what's going on here in Petersburg and, like I said, they know that we are a city that just need that little extra umph to get over the hump. And they are loved here in Petersburg and we are forever grateful for them deciding to come and help us and team up with a city that has really been on the back burner for so long. And, like I told the governor early on, petersburg is a city that has 147 churches, brian, and you gotta realize we have a lot of dams, but we have a lot of babble thumping dams, so therefore we are more of a conservative city, then we are a radical liberal type city.

Sam Parham: 24:52

So we believe in God and Christ and helping people, and the Yonkins believe in God and Christ and helping people and we feel like it is our mission here to uplift the people that's in need and I tell everybody, if you're trying to help, petersburg is ground zero of that need.

Sam Parham: 25:11

Let's have a poverty level that is three times the state average and I have always had some of the highest unemployment in the Commonwealth and I have so many kids here that are all my kids get free and reduced lunch here, so median household income here is some of the lowest.

Sam Parham: 25:33

So this is the place where is most needed and Governor Yonkin knows that and I am forever grateful for his commitment here and we enjoy working with him and his team and it's something that we want to show not just in the Commonwealth but throughout the nation right now that we can get together being an African-American Democratic mayor working with a Republican governor who is definitely a rockstar of the Republican Party right now, but we're showing that we don't have to have all this division and can't working together to get things done, and we're all about coming together as a family and in the Commonwealth of Virginia, we're going to show the entire country that we can do this, we can make an impact and we can come together as a people and stop a lot of this division that I think is really is plaguing our country and can really lead to the downfall if we continue this huge divide. So that's where we are, brian.

Brian Campbell: 26:45

Well, thanks for having us, Matt. I think that's a great story, Carthen.

Carthan Currin: 26:48

Mr Mayor, speaking of turnaround, I think our audience would like to hear some of the history about the incredible pharmaceutical renaissance. Shall we say that this pharmaceutical nexus is coming to Petersburg, if you could? I think our audience would like to hear about this incredible story and it's a real new, critical opportunity for Petersburg and also the Commonwealth.

Sam Parham: 27:16

Yes, it really is. And Carthen, brian, like I said, I've just been thankful and humbled to be at this place and time in which. Here it is, in 2016,. Brian, here it is. I've been on city council for for a little bit over a year now and I'm faced with the biggest financial debacle in the history of the city here, and we had to to release our city manager, city attorney and finance director. Here it is, I'm left with with, with nobody but myself, and the current mayor at the time was Howard Miles.

Sam Parham: 27:52

I was vice mayor and we get a call from from Richmond saying, yes, this company that is thinking about buying your old bi chemical plant that it closed in the 2000s, brian, and and Ampac Pharmaceuticals was up in Richmond and and this thing started with them saying, yeah, I'm, I'm here, we would like to have you here in Petersburg, I'm we're going through some changes right now in Petersburg, but, but this thing was done on a handshake deal that had that I'm, I'm going to make sure that I get the finances right and we're going to be a good partner to you, even though I'm up here with, like and basically had to empty out city hall, and those guys really believed in and and and what we said up there that day in a little taco place in Richmond and saying that we have a proud manufacturing base here. Bi chemicals was a was a strong company there and it was really talked up by Dr Frank Gupton, who's at VCU. He was always a huge cheerleader of what the bi chemical plant could be in Petersburg and Bo Ringo Ingle, where Ingleham was one of our last big employers that closed. So M M pack says that they they see the potential at the site and they end up taking that chance and shook hands and they end up coming here to Petersburg and it's it's. It's been the beginning of of them believing in our city, believing in helping, believing to be the big part, to be a big part of our community.

Sam Parham: 29:39

And, like I tell people right now, farmer, this is our number one priority as a city is to make sure that this farmer base is growing and that we're given all the resources that they need to be successful here. And in the meantime, ampac went out and and COVID hit Brian and COVID really hurt a lot of areas. But something that people don't know is that we have Ampac the boy, the chemical plant, and then, next thing, covid hit a few years later and then it's like all right, we can't get our active pharmaceutical ingredients because all that stuff come from China, india. Let's look at how we can manufacture here. And Ampac say, yeah, yeah, we have a plan here in Petersburg if flow corporation end up getting the the contract to build the stockpile of active farm pharmaceutical ingredients for the federal government. And what?

Brian Campbell: 30:37

they did, was they have COVID we. There was no national stockpile prior to COVID and now there is one. That's in Petersburg, virginia.

Sam Parham: 30:44

And yeah, and it's going to be housed right here in Petersburg.

Sam Parham: 30:47

So flow got it was an $800 million contract from the federal government to build that stockpile, brian, and what they did was they went on out. They went out and recruited CIVICAL corporation who, who provide low cost generic drugs over 1200. Hospital systems through throughout the country, and they had never had a real brick and mortar operation. So they decided to put their first facility here on the Ampact campus, on a street that we created called Simica Way, and Simica is going to be produced in low cost insulin air and the what's called the Sopper, which is where the stockpile of octafarmaceutical ingredients is going to be, is going to be filled up in Petersburg. So that's in production right now. So I tell people, covid really showed the need to for the federal and state governments to put resources and pharmaceutical manufacturing here, for our next pandemic is always the next one. Covid is here to stay and we can't rely on India and China for medicines. And they realized, hey, it's a fine facility here in Petersburg that can produce the amount of volume that we need to keep the country safe.

Brian Campbell: 32:05

I don't think you got the credit. A couple months ago, when Sivica basically announced they were going to produce insulin in Petersburg, it dropped the rate in the country, in the United States, from $300 a mile to $35 a mile and as part of that, sivica helped me explain this. But Sivica signed a contract with the state of California to do all their Medicare and Medicaid, which is probably the biggest customer in the United States. So insulin will be manufactured in Petersburg, virginia, and then put on a train or truck and shipped to California.

Brian Campbell: 32:32

That's an incredible story from the closing from the closing of Brown and Williamson in the 1980s to now being the nationwide provider of insulin, and also affordable insulin. So so not only was it a good supply of it that by Sivica entering the marketplace, it forced the for-profit, because they're not for profit, it forced them into this situation where they had to reduce the price down to an affordable rate. Isn't that just an incredible story?

Sam Parham: 32:58

It is an incredible story and and and and there's something that's much needed, and Ampact, sivica and Fluor have been great partners to us because, like I said before, when we look at the history of Petersburg and the lack of investment, what Pharma has done here, we were able to get the to be part of that, that first grant to build a stockpile, and then we also won the President Biden's Build Back Regional Challenge, the Build Back Better Regional Challenge, and we was one of 22 projects across the country, which was the, the pharmaceutical companies here that that won the, the large grant to to continue to increase Pharma and the education and building the workforce here and improving our water and sewer system here to to support this huge growth here at the, at the pharmaceutical campus, and it's it's. It's important because what you see, brian, is one of the biggest wins for the city of Petersburg. The people understand what Pharma is. It got the attention of the federal government and the state and our poor creek water and sewer system, which is going to be one of the biggest, biggest projects that the city has undertaken with with water and sewer, and I say over 50 years, and what that's going to do is that's going to unlock a lot more development throughout the city of Petersburg because it's going to allow us to increase that system and be able to expand and add more pharma companies, more distribution sites to that southern end of our city, because something that Petersburg has is we have land, but the challenge has been getting water and sewer out there and it's been a over over 40 million dollar investment in poor creek water and sewer system which is going to unlock the potential for more economic development throughout the city.

Sam Parham: 34:56

And, like I said earlier, brian, that's something that we couldn't have done as a small locale which was come up for 40 million to invest in water and sewer system. But because they're having impact some of the flows that needs the water tower out there, they need the high pressure water lines, they need the high capacity sewer sewer lines and that's going to unlock and really put us in a position to be able to expand and grow. That we wouldn't have, we would not have been able to done without the whole investment and and and bringing the manufacturing back more sure here in the United States well, yeah, you gave Frank up to the key to the city, right?

Sam Parham: 35:35

oh, absolutely, that's right. Yeah, well, and I work for and it full disclosure.

Brian Campbell: 35:41

I work for Dr, I work for Dr Gupta, and that's how I came to know you was because we work together on this pharmaceutical project. The other thing I'll just say and then we can move on to whatever Carthen wants to talk about next but the other thing that that made this all come together was when COVID hit. You know all of our drugs are made primarily in India and China, but we forget that there's a lot of infrastructure the federal government in DC and Rockville, maryland, and then to our south is where he researched triangle park with his lot of pharmaceutical stuff.

Sam Parham: 36:06

So the fact that we were on the I-95 quarter between these two pillars really has made a big difference, not just in what we've done so far, but what I think we can do in the future, when you agree exactly as is is, is 100% correct, and and one of the big things that people across the nation is trying to figure out is most people, even in North Carolina they have the research, but they haven't been able to bring in the manufacturing and, and and other places, are marveling at the fact that we were able to bring together the cities of Petersburg, richmond, exact.

Sam Parham: 36:39

We have Richard Blaine College, virginia State University, vcu, bright Point Community College all working together. So whenever you have industry, the localities and you have academia working together, that is what makes this part of the country specials, because in Virginia, we figured it out as far as how to bring everybody to the table for a common purpose and and is really special, brian, because I've never seen this ever happen before. It's always been the competitive nature of, of, of. I want to play in my sandbox by myself and I don't want to play with you, but I've been able to bring everybody together for a common goal of knowing that that everybody benefits and everybody wins when we work together, because really is us against the world right now. That's and this is this has been huge.

Carthan Currin: 37:35

No question about that, mr Mayor. In fact, adversity has many children. One of them is opportunity at yes, and in this particular situation is Sam has indicated this has been an incredible opportunity for finally, richmond and Petersburg to thread that needle, to connect because of Richmond's with VCU being the research university, petersburg being this manufacturing hub and and has that history. It's been a really wonderful relationship and opportunity that the?

Brian Campbell: 38:11

yeah, it's funny. We've we've tried to get Dr Gupton on the program but he's pretty busy. You know he's trying to onshore for the United.

Brian Campbell: 38:18

States. So we get the fact that he's really busy, but also think that you know, I've come to know him pretty well because I work for him. But and I've worked in academia a long time but remember his backstory was he retired out of industry? He ran that bearing or Engelheim plant and then he goes to VCU and he starts putting together manufacturing and put what we left out of. This was for the last ten years.

Brian Campbell: 38:37

He's worked exclusively almost for the Gates Foundation and God knows how many lives he saved, and Sub-Saharan Africa by reducing the cost of age drugs. So the fact that he was in Richmond doing this already and he was very fond of the Behringer plant where he used to work, so he had his finger on the scale a little bit for Petersburg to begin with, that's the beginning of the story, that's the origin story and then it just I feel literally like maybe this is a good segue is where do we go from here? I feel like you know that's part I wanted to talk about how Petersburg had gotten into bad shape and I feel literally now like the sky is the limit for Petersburg, based upon what I see from my job.

Carthan Currin: 39:12

Yeah, and I'll let me add to that, brian. Petersburg has and Sam can speak to this it has incredible, historic, beautiful architecture and you know the Commonwealth has a very robust historic tax credit program and Petersburg is just has a wealth of wonderful, beautiful historic buildings and that Renaissance is also part of its coming back. People are seeing this as an opportunity to go in and take these gorgeous homes, or it's just been a tremendous transformation. I'll let Sam speak to that also. Yes, people need to know too that Petersburg has two interstates interstate 95 and 85. It has five exits. I think it's had the city has the most exits on 95, the Indy city between Maine and Florida.

Sam Parham: 40:07

Wow, okay wow, right, so so that's. That's the thing. All roads lead through Petersburg right, 95, 85.

Brian Campbell: 40:14

That's what General Grant said it used to be railroads and now it's interstates right.

Sam Parham: 40:18

General Grant thought that, yeah, railroads to, and north, south, east, west, all can lead right from the city of Petersburg. But it's it's been both the challenges that we've had and really led. The lack of investment really helped us keep our architectural life in check of what the city really is, and that's why you've seen a resurgence, because people are able to to buy their Victorian style homes here in Petersburg for a fraction of the cost. So we see a tremendous amount of people because of COVID-19. A lot of people are working from home. So I have a ton of people from northern Virginia, baltimore, dc, that says, hey, I'm tired of living in the city. I can buy my house of my dreams here in Petersburg for for $250,000, which would be a a million and a half house up north. And people are buying homes, fixing them up and is led to a resurgence because, as the the, the cost of buying homes have gone through the roof, and Richmond as well I have a lot of Richmond employees to that's also living in Petersburg because of the affordability. Where else can you buy over three or four thousand square foot house for under three, three hundred thousand, but in you know the city of Petersburg, so a lot of people are buying their dream homes here.

Sam Parham: 41:45

Those tax credits have been key as well. You know we have a big project going on there called the hotel Petersburg project, which was a old historic hotel, brian, back before 95 people traveled up and down three, three oh one and it was the hotel to stay at in Petersburg. It was it was our Jefferson in Petersburg before absolute and and and I went. It closed because of 95. It pretty much just just stood there and laid dormant. It has beautiful marble stairs, staircases and marble columns, marble walls, and those tax credits have been key, along with the to be able to get the funding in place. So that's another project that the city we invested two million into a revolving loans fund to get that off the ground is under construction right now. Brian, you got to come and check it out. It's going to be completed back in 20, like the end of 24, getting up 25, and it's it's an undertaking which is bringing back the history and the vibrancy of what downtown Petersburg was and what it's going to be in the future. And we still have a ton of apartments and lofts being renovated.

Sam Parham: 43:04

You know younger people have made the shift as well. Like I said earlier, brian, we had that shift to the suburbs in the late 90s and early 2000s and now we have young people that say I don't want to live out there in the country in the woods. I want to live in the city where I can go to a restaurant, where I can go hang out and have a drink, or I want all the amenities like a fancy gym and bakeries and things of that nature to end my vicinity without having to drive. So people have found out all of our apartments and lofts in downtown Petersburg are full because people from Richmond can live in Petersburg for around $600 less per month for that two-day-room union in Richmond. You can almost save a car payment by living in Petersburg and people have found out that you can get from Petersburg to Richmond in less time than you can get from short pump to downtown Richmond. So that drive up and down 95, that 20-minute drive. People have found out that, hey, I can live in Petersburg and live a lot cheaper and save some money but yet have all the amenities of our larger cities. Because we are a foodie town as well, brian, we have over 30-plus restaurants downtown, including Italian bakeries, barbecue, thai restaurants, asian. We have a croaker spot down there. That puts out huge, huge numbers.

Sam Parham: 44:39

I met with another gentleman that moved down from northern Virginia. He's opened up his restaurant downtown called Soul Rebel. He was in northern Virginia running a food truck but he realized that the cost that he could actually have a brick and mortar that's affordable for him in Petersburg. So he moved him and his family here in order to live, to have their dream of having a restaurant here. And they love the town because it's affordable.

Sam Parham: 45:08

And I tell people, petersburg is the ideal place for small business. I mean you don't have the huge cost of rents and operating costs as you do in other cities. And all of our restaurants downtown do well. Having Virginia stayed across the river along with Fort Gregg Adams, we have a ton of soldiers that stay in downtown that like the vapercy of downtown. They like going down to Trapeze and Brewery to hang out, listen to music, have a beer and walk out downtown. So it's been exciting to me, brian, because during my time in growing up here in Petersburg I can remember when all of those things were closed and really seeing their resurgence has been very, very exciting for me to be a part of it.

Brian Campbell: 45:58

Well, soul Rebel. What a great name. I'm going to have to go down and have some food at Soul Rebel.

Carthan Currin: 46:03

Brian, I think it's time for you to move out of Northside Richmond and find where it has been living as a good Petersburg.

Brian Campbell: 46:11

Well, let me put my. I haven't been in an economics class in 40 years, but there's things in economics called lagging indicators and leading indicators. So we've spent a lot of time talking about the great stuff, the leading indicators. Let's talk a little bit about the lagging indicators, which is education. I know the schools have struggled at Petersburg and it's hard to turn around schools that have been underperforming. And tell me a little bit about where Petersburg schools are today and where you think they can go, and what's it going to take to get you there.

Sam Parham: 46:37

I think it's the right now. Petersburg schools we have a fabulous new superintendent, dr Sterling, who has brought in a tremendous teen. She hasn't been here. She's been here since December, so it hasn't quite been a year, but she is committed to providing the resources to our kids. And then we had the governor in town on Wednesday at Pleasants Lane Elementary School, reading to the kids and made the big announcement of $300 million going towards learning loss due to the pandemic.

Sam Parham: 47:11

And that is the issue here in Petersburg and that is to make up for all that lost classroom time. And also dealing with the the truancy levels, because since COVID it's been hard to get everybody in the classroom on a consistent basis. So just being able to have those extra resources to go out and make sure that our kids are in the class with the learning, because we have a fabulous teachers, we have a committed staff, but if kids are not in school, that's our biggest challenge we have right now. Right is that our truancy rate is over 46 percent of people who miss over 15 percent of their instructional time, and that's the only way we're going to be able to turn things around and we got to be creative on what we do to encourage kids to come to school, encourage their parents to make sure that they get there, and we have all resources committed to that right now and we have a good team in place and I think it's going to to our turn. But it's going to take many hands to lift this load.

Brian Campbell: 48:20

All right. Well, let me take a little bit deeper into that. So because, because I'm being involved with you in the pharmaceutical project, we talk a lot about, you know, that pipeline of talent. But one of the things I brought up in a meeting the other day was part of the problem in this manufacturing industrial base is that we need to retrain existing workers. So you know we put a lot of emphasis on going into the schools and trying to get kids job ready, but the reality of it is a lot of our workforce has to be retrained.

Brian Campbell: 48:46

So, isn't there an opportunity also, not just with the Pharma project but with other things in Petersburg, to have Petersburg before thinking on the ability to retrain the existing workforce?

Sam Parham: 48:56

Exactly, and that's something that we've been working on as well as part of the Build Back Better Regional Challenge grant, and and has has been the educational opportunities and we've been working with with Bright Point, with Virginia State and the thing that that I've been initiating. That. That is key, for what I'm doing on my level is to inform my kids of the opportunities and right now, kids in Petersburg kid, if you graduate from high school, I can get you in a Bright, bright Point pharmaceutical manufacturing program, so for one year and you can get a lifelong career with jobs starting at $55,000. So it is it is key that I've been making sure that the schools send their kids over to bust the kids to the library for these informational sessions, so I've been able to bring, bring employers there and pass some of the flow to just educate them on the opportunities, because when you have a city like mine that haven't seen this, I have to train them on, on encouraging them that you can do this, that this is something that is within reach, that you can do, you can have a good career here, you can live in your city, you can work in your city and and and definitely live a good life here, and one of the best things I can share with you, brian, is that because of this program at Bright Point, the is free to our, to our Petersburg residents, and I was able to get.

Sam Parham: 50:30

The first graduate to come through the program was a single female with two kids working at Walmart, never had a career of her own, just had a job at Walmart. She was the first to graduate from that program and she's going to be working at Simica, making that $55,000 a year, have a career here that she can support her kids on and and and and create that type of advocacy that we need here as a community. And if it's so important to us because in Petersburg, you know, we went from having basically junk bonds to now having a plus bond rating but something that we've been getting dinged on on our audit is our median household income and as of now we got to be able to get our people employed and increase that median household income so we can rise up to that, to that double A standard or triple A standard. But it takes us getting jobs to people just like that young lady who was able to go through a one year program and graduate and now get started on on her career, that that that she can live a good life here inside our city. So so we've been doing these monthly Brian, these educational sessions at the library, along with Virginia Employment Commission, and it's on us as a city.

Sam Parham: 51:49

We have to expose our kids to this because so many of their parents have fallen out of the workplace and don't have those careers so they can't share those opportunities with them. But we do everything in our power as a city to get the kids, while we have them in our care, in school. We don't want this to be an after-school program. This is something within school. You come into the library to get educated on job opportunities here within your city.

Brian Campbell: 52:11

Well, I'll tell you a quick story and then I'll turn it back over to Carthen, that I was taking a tour of the Ampact facility probably a year and a half, two years ago Carthen, you may have been with me, yes, and there was a young man sitting. And it's funny, in the industry they have slang names pots and pans. They have these giant stainless steel pots. That's where pills come from. But there was a young man sitting there and he looked like he was about maybe 30 years old and it looked like an iPad in front of him. It had all these equations and numbers and mixtures and stuff and he was typing stuff into it.

Brian Campbell: 52:36

And somebody said what does this guy make for a living? And he said with shift differentials, you work in second, third shift or whatever. He said it's pushing $100,000 a year. And he said it doesn't require a four-year degree. And that's what I started thinking. I go, my goodness. And this fellow also said that if you've been a short-order cook or somebody who can follow a recipe and a lot of people can follow a recipe that's essentially part of pharmaceutical manufacturing is the ability to just follow this basic equation. And that young man looked pretty happy. So I agree with you. I think that this is certainly coming and I'm excited to look forward to it.

Carthan Currin: 53:10

Thank you, brian Sam. I wanted to change gears a little bit. Talk about Petersburg certainly has a lot of famous folks from it, but two individuals come to mind that I wanted to let our listeners know. Moses Malone is from Petersburg, virginia, and Joseph Cotton, who's a film actor in the glory days of the movies. You want to speak to two favorite sons of Petersburg.

Sam Parham: 53:39

Yes, I mean absolutely. Moses Malone was one of the greatest basketball players of all time and home was right here in the city of Petersburg and we had some glorious times in those 70s when Moses was playing. You couldn't get a ticket to a Petersburg games back there. It was the hottest ticket in the state. And then we have Joseph Cotton. There's a mile marker right there.

Sam Parham: 54:07

If anyone is ever in Petersburg, you can stop right by there at Abermadness Regional Governor's School and they will talk about the life of one of the greatest actors to ever perform, which was Joseph Cotton and really was really one of the driving forces of why we need a school of arts and technology here in Petersburg. And that's where we were able to transfer the whole Petersburg high school that was abandoned on Washington Street into Petersburg at Abermadness Regional Governor's School for the Arts and Technology. And there's where we have a historic mile marker of Joseph Cotton and all of the great movies that he performed in, and he was just a true ambassador of the city of Petersburg. So, like I said earlier, it's all about being able to compile all of this history together and we're working on being able to tell a full Petersburg experience of all the great men and women who have come through our city and made great impacts to our society.

Brian Campbell: 55:14

Well, let me just say to my two politician friends, the mayor and Carthen, we've almost we're running out of time. So now is the time for the closing argument. So both of you can tell me, because you're both Petersburg guys why should I make going to Petersburg, why should I move out of Richmond I mean Carthen's trying to tell me to do or at least certainly get down to Soul Rebel for what sounds like it's some pretty good food what's the closing argument about? Good things and why more people should be going to Petersburg, for whatever reason.

Sam Parham: 55:46

I think one of the biggest things is that in the city of Petersburg you got to realize we're basically two hours from the beach, two hours from DC, 30 minutes from Richmond, and we don't have any traffic here.

Sam Parham: 56:00

So we have all of the amenities of the big city without the traffic, at a lower cost, right and lower taxes than Northern Virginia. So right now what you see is you have the American dream is becoming harder and harder to attain with young people working, and in Petersburg is one of those places where you can still have that American dream. You can have that beautiful house with the picket fence at a fraction of the cost and not be house poor. You can open up a business here and be able to service the huge metropolitan areas of Chesterfield and Richmond because you're 20 minutes from everything, and be able to live a good life here. Right now we are at the resurgence point and I think anyone who's getting started this is the place to get started for the retirees. If, brian, if you decide to sell your house in Richmond, you can cash out and pocket a half million dollars in living in Petersburg and live a lot cheaper than you can in Richmond and you can visit Richmond in time every day.

Carthan Currin: 57:06

I think, you and Carthen are in on the conspiracy. Yeah, they're in the cash. Absolutely, you need to do it. I was born in Petersburg. I was born in Petersburg, lived there in nine months, and all my brothers and I were born in the city. My father was in high school in Petersburg, so the current family has strong connections to the city.

Brian Campbell: 57:24

I know you've been a tireless advocate ever, since he doesn't shut up about a lot of things, but Petersburg is in the top three of things that he won't stop talking about, mr Mayor, always, always, always, y'all keep talking us up.

Sam Parham: 57:36

That's right. I know Petersburg is on the rise and come down and check us out sometime and I'll be part of something special here. So this is going to be a true race to reach your story. When you look back on this 20 years from now and people that came and got in will say we glad we got in. The ones that didn't will say, boy, we missed out. But what was a bargain, which was Petersburg Exactly.

Brian Campbell: 58:01

Mayor, thank you for joining us today. All right, thank you so much, brian.

Sam Parham: 58:04

Carthen, appreciate you all.

Carthan Currin: 58:06

Thank you for calling me To say you, Mr Mayor. Thank you so much.

Sam Parham: 58:09

And, like I said, thank you all for having me on and keep telling the Petersburg story, okay.

Brian Campbell: 58:13

Yes, sir, thank you for joining us today for the Virginians of Interest Podcast. We would like to thank our sponsors, Blue Ridge PBS and Danville Community College. If you like what you heard today, please like and subscribe to our podcast.